To TNsoccer07

Howdy,

You aren%26#39;t too hard to track down:-) Hanging out in your favorite park I see.

Well, I just had to tell you, my son was looking to get out of town for the summer, leaning toward working for a cruise ship or...he didn%26#39;t know.

Remembering my summer in Shenandoah I suggested a national park. He wasn%26#39;t too pysched about Grand canyon or Yellowstone, they were too close. So thinking about your great trip reports and knowing myself how beautiful it is in Glacier I suggested it. And what do you know he got a job--I think it is the lowest of the low in the Many Glacier location, but he%26#39;s okay with it.

Anyway, we may have to take a trip up there this summer to visit him. I%26#39;m re-reading all your reports and marveling again at how much you did and your ability to put us right there with your word pictures as well as your beautiful photos.

We found the photo album with our pictures from our last visit- a very rainy August in 1982 (gasp). The rain didn%26#39;t stop us, we just put on our ponchos and kept hiking. I had more pictures than I remembered in that pre digital age.

We never even knew Many Glacier or Two Medicine existed so this will be all new territory for us. I expect we%26#39;ll be camping at Many Glacier.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know you affected the direction our lives will take this summer as Glacier wasn%26#39;t even on the map a month ago :-)

Take Care.

To TNsoccer07

kbecjeans----watch out or he may get hooked on national parks. The summer I worked in Denali (I will not admit how long ago that was, but the hint is that it was not called Denali then) many of the staff came from Many Glacier---they had worked there the previous summer.

I remember their stories but it took me until 2008 to actually go and see the place. So beautiful! And now we are booked to return this summer. (I%26#39;ll check up on your son if you like).

Don%26#39;t worry about the job being ';the lowest of the low';. I put in my time as a maid cleaning rooms at Yosemite Lodge in Yosemite Valley---back when employees could actually live in the valley. National park work is all about the location and the off work time opportunities.

He will have a good summer.

To TNsoccer07

Hey KJ! Yep, if you can%26#39;t find me elsewhere, it%26#39;s a pretty good bet you%26#39;ll find me hanging out on the Glacier forums. : ) However, I%26#39;m pretty sure I%26#39;ll be headed to the southwest this summer with my family...spending a week in Flagstaff. I still have to see what I%26#39;m doing this summer to make sure I can make it, but if I do, I%26#39;ll be out in late May/early June.

I%26#39;m very glad to hear that your son grabbed a job in Glacier, especially Many Glacier. That will be unbelievable! I cannot imagine spending an entire summer working out of Many Glacier. That%26#39;s exactly where I%26#39;ll hope to get a job next summer...either Many Glacier or St. Mary anyway. I think venturing out there for a summer would be an amazing, reflective journey, and I am excited for my own possible summer out there in 2010.

I am humbled, too, that my posts/reports/pictures affected you and your family%26#39;s immediate future. I hope to continue aiding people in this regard as I continue traveling and especially hiking. It%26#39;s been a bit difficult lately trying to figure out what my future will look like. That%26#39;s exactly why I think a summer in Glacier would be incredible and why I%26#39;m so excited for that.

Anyway, I%26#39;m also very excited that you will also be taking time out to visit him and the park this summer. I am certain you will find it better than in 1982...it sounds like the weather just did not cooperate at all. And Many Glacier and Two Medicine will be a new trip for you too...those are two very beautiful areas of the park. Camping in Many Glacier is also a great idea...what a great location!

Thanks so much for the message. I really appreciate hearing about what you have planned for the summer! Keep in touch %26amp; let me know if I can help you in any way in planning for your trip...although by then I bet your son will be an expert! : )

Sean

Enzian,,, I would have no trouble with him getting hooked on National Parks. I wish now I had done more of it myself. Fun to hear you had that experience as well ! It is interesting to read of all the people planning to travel up to Glacier this year. When are you planning on going?

Sean, I didn%26#39;t even notice you had the destination expert moniker! But well deserved. Maybe my son will enjoy it enough to go again next summer and run into you :-)

So are you planning on hiking the Grand Canyon this year? You really need to if you haven%26#39;t already. Totally different than Glacier for sure :-)

Good to know you are still around. Take care. I%26#39;ll be reading this forum for all the info we%26#39;ll need for sure.

KJ: Thank you...I got the title around Christmas time, so it was a nice gift. : ) I will be excited for my prospective summer job next year because I will not only be having the time of my life out there, but there are plenty of people I%26#39;ve talked to online that I%26#39;m sure I%26#39;ll meet in person. I%26#39;ll just have to keep praying to make sure this is the path I should take next summer.

As of right now, I do not think I%26#39;ll be actually hiking to the Colorado this summer. I would absolutely love to though! We definitely won%26#39;t be staying at Phantom Ranch, but I guess there%26#39;s a slight possibility we may backpack down there. My older brother and his girlfriend are coming with my parents, younger brother, and myself %26amp; she has never been to Arizona, so I doubt we%26#39;ll do anything too serious. One of these years... : )

Do you know yet when or for how long you will be visiting Glacier this summer?

I would have no problems with suggesting you and your brothers hiking to the river and back in one day, not with what you did last year. There are not very many people capable of doing it, but I%26#39;m sure you%26#39;d be some of them. But you have others to consider as well. And you%26#39;d have to have time to train ahead of time.

When we would come is still all so tentative. We may end up driving him up there the end of May, but that would just be an up and back trip. I%26#39;m looking at the end of July for a week long trip and I%26#39;m always greedy, trying to include a drive through Yellowstone as well. Our new daughter-in-law would finish classes the 24th of July and I was hoping she and our son could join us for the trip. But I really haven%26#39;t talked to anyone about it yet, so if they don%26#39;t come we really have all summer to look at. We have plans for June and early september, so July/Aug look the best.

One thing I have wondered about is the bugs. I imagine July/Aug would be high season for mosquitos. They might be a problem if we camped...any thoughts on that:?

Waterton side trip worth it for campers?

I was considering a side trip up to Waterton, but I%26#39;m not sure if it is worth the hassle if we%26#39;re camping 7 days and will likely have a good amount of food/beverage that may be subject to border crossing restrictions. I would hate to have to throw stuff away just to cross over, and possibly throw stuff away before coming back to the US. Basically, would we be better off spending a week in Glacier or is it worth the possible issues to spend 4 nights in Glacier and 1 or 2 in Waterton?

Thanks!

Waterton side trip worth it for campers?

You could certainly have some food issues, generally with regard to meat, produce and alcohol. That issue is easily resolved by only buying what you need of these items while you are in GNP so that you are able to use everything up before you cross the border and then you can buy small quantities of what you need for your time in Canada.

Where I think the real hassle lies is in breaking camp, packing up and then setting everything back up again in another location.

Waterton is close enough to do a day trip from GNP, if you%26#39;d like to see the park. It%26#39;s less than an hour%26#39;s drive from St Mary to Waterton village. Ensure that you have your passports with you, for your re-entry into the US.

Waterton side trip worth it for campers?

Camping Girl...thanks for the advice. I didn%26#39;t realize it was only about an hours drive. If we can do a good job at planning our food rations, then we%26#39;ll try to work it in. Do you feel it is worth the trip up there for a couple people that have never been to Glacier National Park? Meaning, would we likely be just as satisfied spending an extra day hiking/exploring Glacier?

Waterton is a great side trip, especially the drive up as early as possible in the morning as the sun comes up on the eastern side of the range. The boat trip to goat haunt and the easy hike to kootenai lakes almost always brings moose sighting (and mosquitos).

Looks like if we stay at Many Glacier Campsite (which seems highly recommended) it would be a good basecamp for a day-trip to Waterton.

We stayed in St. Mary%26#39;s and did a day trip to Waterton. We enjoyed it a lot, although I%26#39;m sure you can find an equally enjoyable day in Glacier. It%26#39;s a nice change of pace. You get a bit more ';town'; because Waterton is a medium sized resort town.

If you go, I%26#39;d recommend a short hike just as your entering Waterton that starts just behind the Visitor Center. I can%26#39;t remember the name, but it%26#39;s about a 45 minute uphill hike to a breathtaking view point of the whole lake and surrounding mountains. The whole hike will take about and hour and a half.

That little hike jjo recommended is Bear%26#39;s Hump. It%26#39;s a bit of a grind getting up there, but the views are *so* worth it.

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guided hikes

hello,

i am wondering if anyone knows about the guided hikes. where can i find info on this. Do the rangers offer them throughout the year.

guided hikes

You can check the 2008 publications for the ranger hikes of 2008 at this link:

www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/brochures.htm

The 2009 ones probably won%26#39;t show up for a while yet, but they will likely at least be similar to 2008.

guided hikes

The link provided by previous poster is great. The only hike that I personally know anyone has taken is to Grinnell. They said it was a good hike.

';Do the rangers offer them throughout the year.';

Throughout the summer, anyway.

We did two ranger-led hikes last summer (Highline Trail and Grinnell Glacier). Both were great. I was a bit concerned that they might be too slow, pacing the hike to the slowest participant. But they maintain a moderate pace, with briefs stops now and then for mini-lectures on geology, wildlife, etc. so the slower hikers can catch up.

Enzian,

Verry accurate. We never really caught up. Our fault not the rangers.

They really aren%26#39;t accountable for you. You can stick with them or not. Sticking with them is best for learning things but we apparently weren%26#39;t moderate hikers.

Thanks everyone for the great information...it is very very useful...

we are worried about the bears - and feel that hiking in a group is good (although we have not really gone on a ranger led hike - but think that at glacier it might be needed)

i tried looking everywhere for the info, but came up wiht nothing...

was hoping to hike to grinnel glacier, take the boat trip and then the guided hike... but it does not begin until july 15th...so we are out of luck on that one...

so want to make sure that we can get another ranger led hike...

thanks again

While many, many people hike alone or in twos safely, there is comfort in hiking with a group of 4 or 5. You can often meet up with other like-minded people at the trailhead and agree to hike together.

I wouldn%26#39;t assume any hike will or will not start by a certain date. GTSR did not open completely until quite late last year, and there was snow around on the trails later than usual, which directly affects when the guided hikes start.

I%26#39;m personally going to be in Glacier this summer July 5-9, so I hope they have started by then. I%26#39;m traveling alone, and while I%26#39;m not overly concerned about bears/lions, it just makes sense to join the ranger group whenever I can. Especially when Glacier has more good, long hikes ranger led than any other park. Highline, Iceberg Lake, Grinnell Glacier, not to mention a ton of great ones in Two Medicine.

Augusta Outfitter Advice/Info

Hi all.

We will be in Augusta late June and are thinking of a 4-5 day pack trip to include riding and fly fishing. I received info from the following three outfitters and am hoping someone can give me their impressions or experiences with these outfits. thanks.

TripleJ

Ford Creek

Mills Wilderness Adventures

Augusta Outfitter Advice/Info

anyone?

Augusta Outfitter Advice/Info

I have an in-house outfitter, my dad, so I%26#39;ve never been out with these groups. But Augusta and the Bob Marshall are great and relatively undiscovered.

If they%26#39;ve been in business very long, they must be decent because it would be tough to make a living if not.

Thanks. We went with TripleJ for their June trip. They have been around a while and the few reviews on here have been very good. Thanks again!

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Itinerary help

Friday July 3rd: Arrive in Salt Lake City in morning - Drive the long haul to Kalispell and stay at motel.

Saturday: Find a campsite in Glacier (probably along GTTSR). Hike.

Sunday: Move to Many Glacier Campground. Hike.

Monday: Hike, stay at Many Glacier campground.

Tuesday: Move to Two Medicine Campground. Hike.

Wednesday: If we feel we%26#39;ve gotten our fill of GNP, then get up early %26amp; drive to Yellowstone and camp. Or we%26#39;ll bump this day%26#39;s itinerary to Thursday and stay another day to hike.

Thursday: Hike in YNP, Camp in GTNP.

Friday: Hike in GTNP, Stay at Hotel in Jackson

Saturday: Drive to Salt Lake City and drive home.

Question 1:

We%26#39;ve never been to Glacier National Park, but we%26#39;ve been to YNP/GTNP the past two summers. Are we better off skipping YNP/GTNP? Its about a 3-4 hour detour of extra driving as opposed to going direct from Glacier to Salt Lake City. But we love the area, and it would be a nice way to break up the long drive back to Salt Lake City. Also, Jackson makes a good last-night place to unwind and recollect after a week of camping.

Question 2: Our focus is mainly on the East side of Glacier. Should we try to split the nights between the east and west side? Or is there more/better hiking in the east?

Question 3: Best campground that offers nearby showers and laundry facilities?

Question 4: Worth devoting any time to exploring Kalispell? Or is it more of a place to stop for lodging/supplies on the way to Glacier?

Thanks for any/all help.

Itinerary help

My 2 cents worth would be get up early and head over GTTS. Consider hidden lake overlook. Camp at rising sun or St. Mary in the park (right on GTTS)and get some other short hikes (virgina falls area-sunrift gorge) East is more scenic and has better hiking. Rising Sun store has showers in back. Get up early, drive 1/2 mi back on GTTS to wild goose island for sunrise. See if Many Glacier ahs any openings (you are about 15 miles away so you could continue to stay there and drive to and from) Move if possible. Swiftcurrent has showers.

Kalispel is pretty basic, Whitefish a little more intersting but the park beats out the towns.

Other hiking options are plentiful, depending on your desire/fittness/time.

You will soon know if Glacier is your place or you wnat to move on.

Hotels by airport already booked for this summer?

Am I too late or too soon? I just started today looking for a hotel for one night before our return trip from Bozeman Airport. Boy, was I surprised to find that the Hilton Garden Inn is showing no availability. Should I have booked sooner? Any recommendations for a hotel that%26#39;s near the airport for one night? We%26#39;ve got a very early flight, so we%26#39;re looking for something very convenient. How about the Wingate Inn, or in Belgrade, either the LaQuinta or the Holiday Inn Express?

Hotels by airport already booked for this summer?

The airport is between Bozeman and Belgrade on the north side of I-90. There is no direct exit off the interstate that goes directly to the the airport.

Any hotel off the N 19th St Exit would be convenient to get to the airport quickly. The airport is off a Frontage Road and you can access the Frontage Road by getting off the N 19th St Exit. I%26#39;ve stayed at the Wingate which is off that exit. There are a few other hotels there too plus some restaurants, shopping centers, etc. There are more hotels just off the N 7th Ave Exit too. That exit too would be relatively easy to get to the airport from. Just get back on I-90 and go to the N 19th Exit and get off.

Belgrade also has some hotels just off their exit. If I remember right you would need to either to through their downtown area to get on the Frontage Road and go east to the airport. Or get back on the interstate and drive to N 19th Exit and then backtrack on the Frontage Road to the airport.

Hopefully, someone else that lives in the Bozeman area will post with additional help/suggestions. I%26#39;m really surprised that the hotel is full already.

Deb

Hotels by airport already booked for this summer?

Another choice is the Best Western GranTree Inn in Bozeman. They have a shuttle to the airport, although I%26#39;m not sure when it starts operating. I do know that the Delta pilots stay there, so it must begin early.

Either of the 2 Belgrade motels would be good choices too - just check their shuttle times (unless you%26#39;ll have a rental car).

Good Luck!

There are a couple very new motels right by the Costco and I-90/North 19th exit, such as the C%26#39;mon Inn and Marriott Residence Inn. The Wingate in the same area is a little older. All three are fine.

By the I-90/North 7th exit is the Holiday Inn, Comfort Inn and Best Western Grantree. Those are fine, too.

And in between on Baxter Lane (which connects North 7th and North 19th) are the Hampton Inn and Homewood Suites. All acceptable chain motels.

I%26#39;ve never been in the Belgrade motels.

Have a look at this hotel/lodge grlodge.com Its closer to the airport than most in Bozeman and offers some nice features, a great restaurant and very nice rooms.

The Gallatin River Lodge is a nice place -- I%26#39;ve stayed there as well as dined there. But it%26#39;s a small inn, fairly pricey, and not really that close to the airport -- it%26#39;s a bit out in the boonies. I doubt it%26#39;s what you%26#39;re looking to overnight before a flight.

Not sure when you%26#39;re going but I just booked two nights at the Hilton Garden Inn and there was availability for the end of June/beginning of July. Sounds like there are other options though. You can also call the hotel direct.

skiing at Red Lodge

We have not skied at Red Lodge before - are there ski in/ski out options available? if not, what is the best location to stay for skiing?

Thanks!

skiing at Red Lodge

The only lodging near the mountain is in the town of Red Lodge (6 miles away). There are various hotels/motels (along with bed %26amp; breakfast inns) available.

When are you planning on going skiing? The mountain usually closes Easter weekend (no matter how much snow there is) due to being on National Forest land and bears coming out of hibernation.

Deb

skiing at Red Lodge

ok, thanks. we are actually planning for our next ski trip in Dec :)

Staying in town is more fun, as you can walk to restaurants and night life. Red Lodge is a cute little town.

In addition to hotels, check for vacation rentals as a lot of local residents keep a house in Red Lodge for vacationing. There are some on the way to the ski area to keep the drive short, but I%26#39;d rather stay in town. Some of the residences are beautiful and quite deluxe, so it does depend on what you%26#39;re looking for. In town residences would tend to be smaller and less lodge-like.

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March/April Honeymoon

I was wondering what exactly there is to do in March or April in Helena... any ideas?

March/April Honeymoon

visit the national forest they have great animal features, there is skiing, lots of trails for hiking, biking, camping, etc. there is also a cool bridge outside of bozeman, i remember it from when i was last there...it was a bridge that was reall cool to check out, the local ranger can give you directions to it as well..

March/April Honeymoon

In that area of Montana there are several hot springs, some closer than others... Check Boulder Hot Springs for one. You could have fun and pick up some very scenic drives on a hot springs tour (Jackson, Fairmont, Norris, 47th parallel in YNP near Gardiner, Chico, White Sulphur, Bozeman Hot Springs, and Hot Springs MT) I%26#39;ve been to a lot of them. They are generally not fancy spa setups but are pretty folksy. Unlike lots of them out here in the northwest, they are not clothing-optional as a general rule. It would involve some driving.

A drive from Helena to Butte, Anaconda, Phillipsburg and back to Helena would be scenic and interesting. It is a very historical area with a lot to look at. Butte in particular has a lot of history. Helena itself is an interesting town to explore -- hopefully a local will give you details on that!

Glacier Guides, Inc. -- trip-planning for son's 10th b-day

I%26#39;m planning a trip for my husband and my son to celebrate his 10th birthday. So far, we%26#39;ve booked the overnight rafting/cabin trip that they offer (I%26#39;m so jealous!). They%26#39;ll have an extra day to spend out there. We need some ideas of what they can do.....is it wise to book that way ahead of time, too, or is it safe to play that by ear? Also, they%26#39;ll be spending one night in an economy-type place before their rafting trip, but then they%26#39;ll have 2 nights before coming home. I want to set them up somewhere spectacular. Any suggestions?

Glacier Guides, Inc. -- trip-planning for son's 10th b-day

Do they have a car? That would lead to some more suggestions that if they do not. What is their appectite for hiking, animal sightings and scenery? What time of year also?

Glacier Guides, Inc. -- trip-planning for son's 10th b-day

My husband is a diesel enthusiast, so e wants to rent a diesel pick-up. They%26#39;re going at the end of June. They are very into the outdoors/scenery/wildlife, so hiking would be a good option, yes. Any particular outfitters that stand out?

The high country will still have snow so some of the trails may not be available. Most of us are Many Glacier area advocates due to great scenery, wildlife and trails. That would allow them to drive over the GTTS. Early enough in the season that there should be plenty of accomodation option at either the swiftcurrent/many glacier area or st. mary area. You can google both area, both have great views and different accomodation options. Not knowing budget and hiking/amimal interests, I%26#39;ll leave it for more input.

East to West or West to East?

I have been using Trip Advisor for some time, but have never posted, so please bear with me if I leave anything out that%26#39;s important to know, in order to reply.

Our family of five (kids ages 15, 12, 9) will be visiting GNP, Yellowstone and GTNP this August. I know it%26#39;s a lot in one trip, but it%26#39;s our only chance to get out there. My question is this: Is it better to start on the West side and drive East, or the East side and drive West? We will be coming from West Yellowstone and then driving to the Bozeman area after GNP. While at Glacier, we plan to spend a couple of days hiking (hopefully, Iceberg and Grinnell and Fishercap Lake) on the East side and one day driving the GTSR, stopping for shorter hikes along the way. We are staying in Babb and don%26#39;t know yet where we%26#39;ll stay on the West side. That depends on the drive we decide on.

I%26#39;ve got some fear of heights, so part of me wants to drive East to West, to be further from the heights/edge of the road, but another part of me thinks we%26#39;d be better off doing the GTSR first, with its shorter hikes, to help us prepare for the longer ones on the East side. We are not experienced hikers.

Thanks for any help or advice you can offer!

East to West or West to East?

My recommendation is to drive GTSR east to west which is opposite of the way I drive based on I%26#39;m usually coming from Idaho. I think the initial entrance into the park from the east is more impressive than coming from the west. My other recommendation is to pick one location in the park to spend several days if possible. My favorite one stop location is Many Glacier, I think it%26#39;s hard to beat for access to activities(ranger hikes and lectures), animal sightings, hiking (numerous day hikes), and services(hotels/motels/stores/campgrounds) along with outstanding scenery and a little less rain than the west side.

East to West or West to East?

I agree with the previous poster and with all the reasons. I just really liked Swiftcurrent. The trail heads for the 3 hikes you mentioned are right there too. Fishercap Lake isn%26#39;t really a hike but is very pretty and you might see a moose. You should continue past Fishercap (after checking out the lake) and continue on to Redrock Falls. Its a nice warmup hike.

Here%26#39;s a link to a trip report from when we were there. If you look at the top buttons, you can get a good idea of what Grinnell Glacier and Redrock Falls look like.

http://www.alandsuejohnson.com/glacier_np.htm

There%26#39;s also a link to our Yellowstone stuff on the left. There%26#39;s actually more for YNP than Glacier.

If it is running when you are there, take the free shuttle and don%26#39;t drive at all. You can get on at any of its stopping places, get off at any, transfer to the other shuttle at Logan Pass and go down the other side and come back over again. It%26#39;s really nice to let an experienced person do the driving for you while you gawk at all the scenery. Make plans so you can get off at a trailhead to hike and get back in time to catch a shuttle back.

The Going to the Sun highway is in the process of being rebuilt and there can be traffic backups. You will be much less stressed riding the shuttle than being stuck in traffic, watching for your turn to move forward instead of watching for the animals or looking at the scenery.

all of the above are right on

One thing to add - since you express a fear of heights. When going from east to west on GTTS you are mainly on the ';mountain side'; of the road. When going from west to east, you are mainly on the ';cliff side'; of the road.

If you%26#39;re coming from YNP and then going to Bozeman when you leave the park, you will be coming from east of the park and leaving to points east of the park when you go. So, I don%26#39;t see what difference it makes which direction you travel the GTTS road from, since you will be backtracking at some point in the trip either way. So why not travel the road from the direction you will be most comfortable; which is east to west. Hit GTTS when you get to the park, do the shorter hikes that you are hoping to do to prepare for your longer hikes, and you can back track to Babb from West Glacier via hwy 2 (to East Glacier, then north to St Mary and Babb) after you%26#39;re done on the west side of the park.

Wow! Thank you, everyone, for your fast and helpful replies. East to West it is. I had not considered the shuttle before, so will look into that. I like the idea of everyone being able to enjoy the scenery (my husband, who will be doing the driving, and me, who will be more relaxed with someone who knows the roads behind the wheel).

One question it brings up...how long does it take to go back down the west side, head east, then head back north to Babb? In our original plan of driving across with hikes along the way, I thought it would be a very full day.

One other question...when we drive back down to Bozeman, we were going to go from the west side, just to see something different on the way back, rather than driving the same roads up and back. We would have seen Flathead Lake, for example. Should we consider sticking with that plan, or just drive up and back from the east side?

Thanks so much, once again. You all have really helped us rethink our itinerary and we will modify our plans by your feedback.

The shuttle is a fabulous idea for GTTS! But if you take the shuttle you will have to take it back to the east side again, to get back to your car.

My estimate on driving from West Glacier to East Glacier and then north to Babb is that it will take about 2 hours, maybe a wee bit longer.

The idea of driving south along Flathead Lake on your way to Bozeman is a great one - that is a very scenic drive, especially on the east side of the lake, from Bigfork to Polson.

There is also a ';Red Jammer Bus Tour'; that does a narrated tour over and back. If the weather is nice they take the top off so you have even better views. This service costs but it may be worthwhile to you. The shuttle bus drivers may or may not comment as they drive.

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Spokane to Glacier - Car Rental Help

I would like to fly into Spokane and rent a car to drive to Glacier, then drop the car and take the Empire Builder train from Glacier to Seattle. I can%26#39;t seem to find a reasonably priced one way car rental (being quote something like $900 for 5 days). Any suggestions?

Spokane to Glacier - Car Rental Help

The price sounds pretty reasonable to me for a one-way rental to Glacier. The car companies charge a one-way drop off fee, because they have to somehow get the vehicle back to the place you originally rented it from. Sometimes they have to be towed back.

Spokane to Glacier - Car Rental Help

Yes, drop off fees can be high, especially when you start in one state and drop off in another. We have rented in Billings and dropped off in Great Falls and while there is a fee, it is at least in state and not as bad.

Good point, hikes. Also, when you are dropping off in a larger centre the one way fee is usually lower, because there is a greater likelihood of the vehicle getting a one-way rental back to where it came from.

What do you mean drive to Glacier? I found $408 or something on www.kayak.com for pick up in Spokane and dropping at Kalispell.

I checked it for one-way. I don%26#39;t know where you%26#39;d catch the train or I would have checked that.

Are you still flying in to Salt Lake and going to YNP? I%26#39;m a little confused when comparing your posts what your plan is.

Don%26#39;t know where you%26#39;re from, but if it is the UK there are special agencies you can rent one-way from.

Why don%26#39;t you just drive back to Spokane and pick up the train there to go to Seattle? You%26#39;ll save a lot of money. Go out by way of Flathead and back by way of Lake Pen D%26#39;Oreille.

Thanks for the helpful feedback. For the last poster, SLC/YNP was last year%26#39;s trip. YNP/GTNP is a hard act to follow. I%26#39;ll check Kalispell.

Golf-babb

Are there any golf courses in the St. Mary/Babb area??

Golf-babb

not that I%26#39;ve ever seen, but lots of places to ';unoffically'; get a few drives in!!

Golf is in the Flathead Valley with some excellent courses. There is a short one in West Glacier and a marginal one at East Glacier.

There is also one in Waterton, though I have never played it.

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Best way to Granite Chalet

Just a day hike to see the views and the Chalet. Thinking about starting at the Loop since it%26#39;s only a 4 mile hike but hear that%26#39;s a pretty tough trail. Highline trail seems good too but a longer walk and wondering if it will eat up most of our day to and from. Suggestions?

Also, for ';tourist day hikes'; do we need to get a permit? I%26#39;ve read on some sites where people talk about hiking permits....

Best way to Granite Chalet

You need permits only for backcountry hiking and overnights. We hiked Granite Park from the Loop. A lot of the hike is thru a burn area. While most people have said they didn%26#39;t like this hike, we found the burn area really interesting. The trees are almost silver. It really wasn%26#39;t a bad hike even with the elevation gain. If you hike on Highline to the chalet you do get much better views, and can hike out to the loop. You would have to take the shuttle or arrange for a ride back to your car. There isn%26#39;t much elevation gain on Highline.

Best way to Granite Chalet

The shortest route is definitely from the Loop and back. It is also much steeper than the Highline Trail and is not as scenic. If you enjoy burn areas and the potential for some nice wildflowers and don%26#39;t mind a steep trek, then the Loop is a good choice. However, I really, really like the Highline Trail %26amp; would recommend that. You can either hike that out to the Loop or to the chalet and back. I think the views on the Highline Trail are spectacular though!

best way is the highline as you have much better views and far better opportunities to see wildlife. The trail is not bad but has some more up/down than most people expect.

So, the only thing that is bothering me...the beginning of the Highline Trail. How bad is that drop off? The trail looks pretty dang narrow and since we are not expert hikers just wondering if normal people go on this trail. We are not afraid of heights,(wife and I) not sure about my son though. (15) how long is this tight area and is it really as bad as the pictures make it out to be?

Once we get past this narrow part then it%26#39;s a bit more open from what I see n pictures. The scenery looks amazing....it%26#39;s just the narrow part!! Am I over reacting??

I did not find it bad at all, and I don%26#39;t care for exposed places (althoughI am also an experienced hiker---go figure). There is the dropoff on one side, but the trail is wide enough (maybe 3 feet) and the tread is solid and good. You don%26#39;t feel like you are going to trip or slip. Also, there is a cable secured to the cliff on your right side and you can hold that for security if you need to.

Planning GNP visit for June

I just need some input on plans for our family vacation this June. It will be me, my husband and two boys (ages 7 and 12). I%26#39;m drowning in info and choices!

First, we%26#39;re flying into Kalispell. We originally planned to use the town as our base of operations for our week%26#39;s stay, but I think I%26#39;m rethinking that now. We nixed staying all week at one of GNP%26#39;s resorts because my boys would revolt at the ';no t.v.'; thing, but one or two nights might work.

Day 1. Our first full day I%26#39;m planning on exploring Whitefish since we%26#39;ll probably be tired of traveling and a little jet lagged as well.

Day 2. My youngest boy is a train fanatic, and I just figured out we can take the Amtrak train from Whitefish for a day trip. I%26#39;m considering going to Exeter for the day so he can ride trains, watch trains, and generally breath trains. Can we spend the whole day in Exeter without getting bored? It looks like there%26#39;s a hiking trail or two nearby. We%26#39;d literally be in town all day if we did this since the return train doesn%26#39;t leave until the evening.

Day 3. We plan to drive GTTSR the next day (assuming the weather cooperates and the road is open) with lots of stops for sightseeing and short hikes. What should our end destination be? One suggested initinerary I have says to overnight in St. Marys. Good idea or somewhere better we should aim for?

Day 4 %26amp; 5. Depends on where we are. My husband is dying to do flyfishing lessons. I%26#39;d like to take the boys horseback riding (something really easy as none of us are riders). With the caveat that we need to be back in or near Kalispell the fifth night. Our flight leaves relatively early on the 6th day.

Any and all suggestions are welcome!

Planning GNP visit for June

1. What time to you arrive in Kalispell? Would this be a good time for your husband to do his fly fishing lesson? There is a half-day trip from West Glacier starting at 1:30 P.M.

https:/鈥lacier_flyfishing.htm

Note: This is not a recommendation as I have not affiliation with them nor have I taken any lessons or trips with them. I just found them on the internet.

If your husband chooses to take the trip from West Glacier, there are probably more things to do/see in that area than in Whitefish.

2. Where is Exeter? I cannot find any town or station near Whitefish, MT with this name.

3. If the GttS road isn%26#39;t open all the way, you could drive part way up and do some hikes on the west side, then drive around the park on highway 2 and on up to St. Mary to drive part way up the east side for more hikes. There are places to stay in Browning, St. Mary, Babb, and at Many Glacier. Even if the GttS road is open all the way these areas are good choices to stay in. It puts you nearer some great hikes on the east side and allows you to explore the Many Glacier and Two Medicine areas.

4, 5. There should be a number of places near Glacier to ride horses, both on the east side and the west side. From the Browning, MT area to Kalispel is about 100 miles on highway 2 and should only take you a bit over 2 hours. Make your plans based on that distance and the extra distance from where you stay to Browning.

Planning GNP visit for June

Sorry, I meant Essex not Exeter. That%26#39;s what I get for doing too many things at one time.

Just as a hint, I drove through there last August and didn%26#39;t even realize there was a town there. I think you and the kids would be terribly bored spending a day there. JMHO

Essex is grat in winter, not so much in June. Whotewater rafting is an option, cold and wild that time of year. Horse back riding out of Lake McDonald lodge, pretty basic and easy. Go carts and a drive through bear reserve on hwy 2 as you come into glacier from columbia falls/kalispel. Hidden lake at the top of logan is doable for kids and has high probability of animals (mntn goats) If you go to st. mary%26#39;s, suggest making the rest of the distance to many glacier (cabin at swiftcurrent) as high probability of bears and maybe moose (if you/kids are into that) But grsat scenery (if weather good)

So would we better off trying to spend a day in East Glacier instead of Essex? It doesn%26#39;t look like there%26#39;s a lot going on there either.

RM-MN,

We don%26#39;t get into Kalispell until late afternoon so no chance of fly fishing then.

East Glacier is not really at the center of hiking by any means but it does have more to do than Essex. If you don%26#39;t mind spending a bit more money, there are tours that originate there. You%26#39;ll have to research if any of them fit your budget, interest and can get you back in time to catch the return train or can get you back to Whitefish.

Kalispell

Hello,

i am wondering if Kalispell is a tourist town... and the place where people stay when they visit the west side of Glacier National park.

i am also wondering about july 4th activities around Kalispell.

Kalispell

When people visit GNP, they generally stay in GNP, or just outside the park in places like Babb, Hungry Horse and Columbia Falls. Maybe Whitefish. Kalispell is a great little city, but it is about an hour%26#39;s drive from GNP. There are lots of places that are much closer. If you are flying into Kalispell and the town interests you, perhaps you might want to spend a day there when you arrive, and then stay somewhere closer to the park for the rest of your vacation.

Kalispell

Thanks Campgirl,

Thanks for your help - we are trying to decide if we want to stay in kalispell for the second night or get into McDonald Lodge...

our schedule goes. fly into billings, spend two days at yellowstone lodges, then drive up to glacier.

we will be spending the first night at the hilton in Kalispell and are booked for Mc Donald lodge the next 2 nights...

the complicatioin arrives from deciding to use a travel coupon which is for a 2 night stay (hilton) or just to go as planned and get into mcdonald lodge.

and then spending 10/9 days in glacier/waterton

the coupon is a little bit of a savings - but if it is a pain to travel between kalispell and glacier - then the ';easy thing to do'; is more important...

if kalispell is a tourist town (like a lot of them - they are cute and fun to walk around in and stuff) if it is a regular town - we have that there - and up in wisconsin... the cute small town thing...

so trying to get a feel for the city of kalispell... sounds like a cute small town - but, not really the tourist thing...

but, i guess the main thing is the drive - is it worth it to save money to drive between the 2...

hilton sounds like a really nice place to stay... so is it worth the drive and the money savings...

but, we are on vacaton to see wildlife... so that it glacier - in the park...

i am leaning towards staying in the park :)

but, not sure

i guess when thinking about this...

if we wanted to walk around a more scenic place we could go to bigfork - or to whitefish for a while...

i guess that the thing is the drive between the park and kalispell... an hour sounds like to much

thanks for your help campgirl - i like your name...

hello,

we ended up with our reservations for this summer being Hilton for one night and then moving onto Glacier and staying at Mc Donald Lodge for two nights.

thanks for everyone%26#39;s help with this

Debating on driving from Salt Lake or Spokane

We are trying to determine whether to fly into Spokane or SLC. Have to fly via Southwest to use our miles and some airfare credit.

Option 1: Fly from STL to Spokane on about a 6 1/2 hour flight to there with a plane switch along the way (its a 7 hour flight back with 2 stops including a plane switch) plus a 5 hour car one-way drive (according to google) to Glacier. Total roundtrip flight/drive time of about 24 hours of flying/driving.

Option 2: Fly from STL to SLC on a 3 hour direct flight. Then have a 10 hour one-way drive to Glacier. Total roundtrip flight drive time of 26 hours.

Not sure what the cost differences would add up to when I factor in renting a car as in Spokane as opposed to SLC, difference in price of a plane ticket to Spokane opposed to SLC, amount of gas used and what the gas price will be then when dong more driving to/from SLC, etc...

Upside to option 1 is that its a little shorter, a different drive from our usual one going north of SLC to Yellowstone (which we%26#39;ve done the past 2 summers), more time on the plane (not sure if that is a plus or negative). Downside to option 1 is more airport hopping, more potential for lost luggage/delayed flights, and i can usually improve upon the estimated drive time google gives which could cut down on that 10 hour drive to hopefully closer to 9 hours.

Not sure if there is something obvious I%26#39;m missing in this decision. Anyone have any suggestions/thoughts?

Debating on driving from Salt Lake or Spokane

We%26#39;ve been debating the same thing for late Aug-early Sept. this year. We talked about either flying into Kalispel on Delta which is very expensive or flying Southwest from Birmingham, AL and then drive to Glacier which friends have said is a good 9 hour drive. We can go on Southwest for about $220 each round trip and rental cars seem to be cheaper out of SLC so that is probably what we will end up doing. Good luck with your trip planning.

Debating on driving from Salt Lake or Spokane

CeCeDouglasville... flying into Kalispell isn%26#39;t really an option for us because it would add a significant cost to the trip. More than a 1/2 dozen times, I%26#39;ve driven the portion of the drive from SLC before cutting over to Yellowstone, and it is a pleasant drive. SLC rental car rates are usually reasonable as well. I guess for us, it boils down to whether we want to spend more time in an airplane/airports or more time on the road. Plane hopping / lost luggage / cramped seating stresses me out, so I%26#39;m now leaning towards the SLC route with a long car ride. I just hope Glacier is worth the hull. We love yellowstone/tetons and we know the parks well, but I feel I need to experience GNP at least once.

We did Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, Yellowstone and Grand Tetons in 2007 and Black Hills, Deadwood, Battle of Little Bighorn, Yellowstone, Cody, Casper and Cheyenne in 2008. We are planning to go to Glacier and come back to Yellowstone and GT for a couple of days before we fly out of SLC. We too want to experience the different landscape, etc. in Glacier but we love YNP and GT.

I%26#39;ve driven Salt Lake to Glacier in a big loop, but took a bit of a detour and an overnight in central Idaho in the Sawtooth Mountains on the way there (and went back through the Tetons). There%26#39;s actually a lot to see along the way... Craters of the Moon, Sun Valley, Sawtooth Mountains, Missoula carousel, etc. I guess I prefer being in the car to being in the plane, so if I were to do it again I%26#39;d still drive from Salt Lake.

It%26#39;s only about 275 miles from Spokane to GNP, so about 4.5 hours. The drive, if you go north from Couer d%26#39;Alene to Sandpoint to Bonner%26#39;s Ferry then east to Libbey,MT, Whitefish and GNP, is very scenic. Another drive option is to go east at Sandpoint, then north to Troy, MT and then continue east to Libbey and Whitefish, etc. Very nice country. I%26#39;d pick this over the SLC option in a heartbeat, in terms of driving scenery. So, the best choice is probably to weigh the cost of flying into each place, for starters. Then, when you consider that you will be driving twice as far to get from SLC to GNP vs from Spokane, I have to think that the mileage charge on your rental car is going to be a lot more out of SLC, unless you can get something with unlimited miles.

It was a tough call, but we went with the option of flying into SLC. We can still change that, but it boiled down to a few things: decreasing the chances of lost luggage (which includes camping gear, and is something that was lost in the past and threw a major kink in our plans), I%26#39;m guessing more rental car options and probably cheaper in SLC, and having the option to swing through Yellowstone/Grand Tetons on the way back and stay a night in Jackson before finishing the drive back.

I imagine the drive from Spokane to/from Glacier is beautiful, so I do hate to miss that, as well as checking out Spokane for 1/2 a day.

If you want to go to Yellowstone and the Tetons,then go to SLC, but Spokane is a major city and will have plenty of rentals.

As a person who has made these drives, I would go with Spokane hands down UNLESS I wanted to squeak in Yellowstone. Yellowstone does not squeak well, however, and will take up more time than one thinks. SLC is really not very convenient to Glacier.

I%26#39;d even consider Spokane to Glacier to Yellowstone then back to Spokane. The drive on I-90 through Butte and Missoula, MT and Wallace and Coeur D%26#39;Alene ID is very pretty, and fast.

But you%26#39;ve already made your tickets... I%26#39;m sure it will turn out fine. Have a great trip!

ainwa...Thanks for the reply. I completely agree with you that the drive coming out of Spokane would be a better option (even with a detour to Yellowstone). The killer for us is the difference in the flight to/from Spokane vs to/from SLC. Spokane would add up to 14+ hours of roundtrip airport/flight time vs 6 hours going to SLC. Definitely not looking forward to the long drive from SLC to Kalispell, but counting on the excitement of getting to Glacier to make it better.

Thanks

After second guessing myself, I re-checked flights to/from Spokane and the price dropped significantly. Its now cheaper (when I account for gas to drive from SLC) to fly into Spokane. And less time on the road. So, its cheaper, less hectic, way less driving, and more time to spend in Glacier. Hate to miss out on a quick trip through Yellowstone and the Tetons, but I%26#39;ve been there 4 times already so dedicating to Glacier is the way to go.

Hooray! Score one for the travel gods. I think it will be much more fun than the trip with the *bonus* 300-400 mile drive leg.

On the way out, consider going through Sandpoint/Lake PenD%26#39;Oreille and back the other way.

Other people have more specific expertise on Glacier than I do. I have driven through the area in Idaho and in Montana south of Glacier many times.

My particular favorite city to visit for a few hours is Butte for historical interest, but it is not a glamorous town. There are also hot springs throughout the area which are fun to stop at. Wallace Idaho is an interesting place to stretch your legs if you go across on I-90. You can skip the Silver Dollar even though they have spent a lot of $$ on billboards -- it%26#39;s not a bad place to stop to eat, but nothing major. In Montana, look for letters on the hills as most schools and towns have some kind of white stone letter up around town.

If you really want to save money on car rentals, I have found the best deals on Enterprise off-airport. To use them you have to arrive on a weekday during their office hours and take a bus or taxi to their location. Check the website, because they often give weekends free or half off. I don%26#39;t have any specific experience on the locations in Spokane, but there is one even in my small town.

Thanks for sharing the good news...

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Best day hikes - that are up to 15 miles

Hi!

We will be traveling to Glacier with my 22 months kid and my new born (will be around 3 months). Planning to hike with them on our backs. We are in good shape, like up hills and beautiful scenery but can%26#39;t do anything too long. We like the less touristy hikes. Which hikes would you recommend?

Best day hikes - that are up to 15 miles

I can definitely recommend a lot of hikes to you. But first, I have just a couple of questions. Did you mean to type up to 15 miles? To me, 15 miles is quite a long hike for an average person, and since you said ';but can%26#39;t do anything too long'; I just wanted to verify the case. Also, how many days will you be staying in the park %26amp; do you know where you%26#39;ll be staying?

Thanks,

Sean

Best day hikes - that are up to 15 miles

I am not sure yet where we will stay. I saw that ';Many Glacier'; is very recommended but we will decide based on where the nice hikes are.

You are right, 15 miles is very long day for us but I think it may be doable depending on the terrain. Probably with hills, a more realistic distance will be 7-10 miles but if something is worth it... we would consider I guess.

Thanks for checking and any tips are more than welcome!!

Weather can change quickly in Glacier so there are risks to getting out there, if you have young ones. I think many of the longer hikes might not be great options due to significant elevation changes. That said, hidden lake at logan pass is a nice introduction hike as is avalanche lake and trail of the cedars of the west side. East side is likely swiftcurrent pass trail as far as bullhead lake/red rock falls, maybe iceberg lake or grinnell glacier also. All out of the Many Glacier area.

From Many Glacier the Swiftcurrent Pass hike to Granite Park Chalet and back would be perfect. Most of it is easy and the last steep part (2,000%26#39; gain)is not too long (3 mi). Passes several really pretty lakes that sort of stairstep down the valley.

bigskyfishing.com/National_parks/glacier/hik鈥?/a>

Thank you for the tips!

Elevation gain is OK. We%26#39;ve done quite a few hikes with my son in the Canadian Rockies, Italy and Switzerland and we managed well. Didn%26#39;t try this with two yet though :-)

Hikes I saw recommended to others are:

Grinnell Glacier

Iceberg Lake

Highline Trail

Cracker Lake

Hidden Lake

Swiftcurrent Pass - which you recommended as well

Would you say these are the most recommended? Any others we should look into? Would any of these be challenging in terms of shuttles or extremely long to do with the kids?

Thanks again!

long is relative based on weather, kids attitude and your energy that day I assume. Swiftcurrent is the longest, highline next. Grinnel has turnarounds long before the glacier depending on your day. Iceberg is a definite final destination, nothing gained if you don%26#39;t go all the way.

Just in reference to the possibility of hiking Many Glacier to Granite Park Chalet and back...the hike would be 15 miles and gain a total of ~3,000 feet over its course. It gains about 2,300-2,400 feet up to Swiftcurrent Pass and then drops 600-700 feet to Granite Park Chalet (which will be regained on the way back). It would actually be a fairly strenuous day, but if hills aren%26#39;t too much of a problem, a very worthwhile hike. If you could arrange transportation (possibly a commercial shuttle) in order to hike Logan Pass to Granite Park Chalet to Many Glacier, that would be an ideal route. I did this hike last summer and it was incredible! It would be 15 miles but very little uphill.

All of the hikes you mentioned are great hikes. However, many of them are more popular and some may be considered the more ';touristy'; hikes in the park--especially Iceberg, Grinnell, and Hidden Lake Overlook. This does not mean I would not recommend them, as they are popular for good reason. However, since you did mention that you like the less touristy hikes, I thought I%26#39;d recommend to you some other options that allow you to see some beautiful scenery that are not as crowded and are more off the beaten path.

In the Two Medicine area, the hike to Two Medicine Pass is great, but it is long. It would be about 14.5 miles long but provides some beautiful views into the interior of the park. Triple Divide Pass in the Cutbank area is in one of the most seldomly main areas of the park. At about 13 miles long, this trail is rather long but not incredibly difficult. You get some great views along the way to the pass as well as from the pass. From near the Chief Mountain Customs Station (Canadian border) you could hike the Lee Ridge Trail to Gable Pass and back (around 12 miles) for some great views on a fairly moderate uphill trend. Also, on the south side of the park you can hike to Firebrand Pass and back (10 miles) for some interesting views of the Great Plains and interior part of the park without the crowds. Finally, off Going-to-the-Sun Road, I highly recommend the Siyeh (10.3 miles plus shuttle) or Piegan (9 miles) Passes. These are less crowded than most of the hikes you mentioned and provide great views...especially if you hike the Siyeh Pass loop.

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Garden Wall part of the Highline Trail... HELP!!!

OK guys....am I over reacting? This part of the highline trail looks a bit to close on the edge for me. My wife really, really wants to do this trail and I am not afraid of heights but can be a bit bothered by certain situations...this is one of them. How long is this cliff part of the trail? I think if I can just get past this part (from what pictures I%26#39;ve seen) I should be fine. We are planning on hiking to Granite Chalet and then down the Loop trail to get to our car. Are there any other really close to edge cliffs anywhere else on the trial? Or, is it smooth sailing after this cliffy part?

We are both beginning hikers but in great shape)and I am really looking forward to taking up this hobby. I%26#39;m buying all sorts of good equipment, shoes, etc.. so this is my break through to the world of back county hiking. Is this a good trail for beginners to go on? Also, wondering about the weather (in late July) if it%26#39;s going to be windy and cold near the top.

Any help or pictures or words of encouragement that can make me say ';I can do this'; will be wonderful.

Thanks

Garden Wall part of the Highline Trail... HELP!!!

You have some of the same concerns that I did before my recent trip in September. First of all, the Highline Trail is a MUST!!!!

I did eight different hikes including the most popular (Iceberg lake, Grinnell Glacier, Avalanche Lake, Hidden Lake, Scenic Point, Cracker Lake) and Highline is the best of the bunch in terms of scenic vistas. The good part about the rimrock (or garden hose) section of the Highline which you refer to is that it is right at the start of the hike.

You go no more than 1/4 mile from the trailhead fore you find yourself on a 2-3 foot wide trail about 300 feet directly above GTTS road. This section lasts for maybe 1/8 mile before you leave the ';sheer'; drop section. The rest of the hike doesn%26#39;t have any real feeling of exposure nor did any of the rest of the hike make me think twice.

I am not great with heights and am a flatlander living in Buffalo, New York so this type of exposure was brand new to me. It wasn%26#39;t as bad as I feared during the months I was planning the trip. That said, I was also glad when it was over. I%26#39;m planning on doing it again this year when I return.

I will attach a link to my rather lengthy trip report which includes the Highline.

glacierparkchat.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php鈥?/a>

Garden Wall part of the Highline Trail... HELP!!!

Thanks for the information and the pictures are incredible. I am an avid photographer and can%26#39;t wait to take pictures myself. I know there will be some incredible shots on the highline trail...got to get to them first though.

We are from Florida but have been to many mountain ranges and on some great short hikes - nothing like the side of a cliff as is along the garden wall though. I guess I%26#39;ll have to suck it up and remember to breathe as I make my way past this section. The rest of the trail looks good and I see in your photos a few tight turns but those I can handle.

For anyone that has hiked the Hidden Canyon trail in Zion National Park....how does Highline Trail compare? The following link has photos of Hidden Canyon trail...http://www.zionnational-park.com/images/album2/index24.htm

I haven%26#39;t done much hiking but I was on Hidden Canyon alone and thought to myself ';doing this alone is not really smart';.

I didn%26#39;t get to hike this trail though I would have liked to. When we go to the exposed part my wife said ';NO';. It did have a cable fastened to the inside edge to hold on to and I did see a lot of people hiking. I also watched a mountain goat on that portion and it didn%26#39;t seem to have any problem hiking right on the edge without hanging onto the cable. :^)

If the security of having the cable is enough to make you feel more comfortable, it should be easier than that trail shown in the pictures from Zion.

We did not hike the entire Highline Trail as the day we wanted to it was rainy. We hiked out about an hour and back. I have a pretty good fear of heights and this section made me a feel a little ';iffy'; but I went on and it was fine. I could not complete the hike at Hidden Canyon in Zion. I don%26#39;t think the two compare. If I remember right (Zion was about 5-6 years ago) Hidden Canyon has the chains you hold and it is very narrow. Highline was not this bad, basically a narrowing of the trail with some drop off, but much wider than the section of Hidden Canyon I remember.

This is the only section that is uncomfortable, and as noted, the cable is there. I have seen people walk this clinging to the wall and we have to pass them on the outside, which is ok. Once thru this section the trail is safe, mostly wide and the views great. Goats and sheep often visible. Once you master this section, and as you near granite park, you%26#39;ll be ready to climb up to the top of the ridge at the grinnell glacier overlook. Tough up section, big drop on the otherside, but many safe and comfortable places to look over and down.

Where to stay our last night west of the park?

Our flight departs out of Spokane on a mid-afternoon. Trying to pinpoint where would be the best place to spend our last evening outside the west end of the park. Kalispell, Whitefish, Columbia Falls, Spokane, somewhere else in-between?

Just looking for a town with decent lodging options, some unique restaurant selections, maybe a little nightlife or nice areas to walk in the evening? Any suggestions?

Where to stay our last night west of the park?

Suggest you consider Sandpoint, Idaho or Coeur d%26#39; Alene, Idaho. From Sandpoint it would be a 2 hour drive to the Spokane Airport, from Coeur d%26#39; Alene its about a 45 minute drive to the Spokane Airport. Coeur d%26#39; Alene is larger and may offer more lodging / restaurant options. Sandpoint is in a very scenic location. Both are on a route back to Spokane, via Sandpoint would be on the most scenic route, via Interstate 90 Coeur d%26#39; Alene is on the fastest route back to Spokane. The Festival at Sandpoint runs from August 6 - 16 which will increase crowds in Sandpoint on the weekends.

Where to stay our last night west of the park?

Kellogg - Wallace area has the hiawatha trail for a bike ride as well as a new indorr waterpark associated with a condo/hotel complex. Might be another option.

All these suggestions sound worth looking into. Whitefish is on my radar, but it would require us to head out at about 5:00am...and keep our fingers crossed that there wouldn%26#39;t be any delays along the way.

What kind of towns are these? ie...golf resort, mountain towns, ski resort areas, rugged, etc...? We usually end our Northwestern trip in Jackson, WY. Any towns/locations in-between Spokane and Glacier with that same type of feel? Small, but with lots of shopping/restaurants/lodging... I guess that would make it semi-touristy.

Both Sandpoint and Coeur d%26#39; Alene have a ';resort'; feel to them, Sandpoint more so because its smaller and a little more isolated but its not gone the full resort mode as Sun Valley or Aspen. Sandpoint still has a mixture of locals and visitors, and a mixed economy of logging, farming, ranching, service, and tourism. Sandpoint has changed over time to having more second home owners and visitors due to its great location on a very large lake, a good ski area, and great summer weather (low humidity, cool evenings). Coeur d%26#39; Alene has become more tied into the greater Spokane area over time and sees a lot of weekend activity from local area residents (Spokane and Coeur d%26#39; Alene). Coeur d%26#39; Alene will have a larger selection of lodging and resaurants, has a great downtown, city beach and a nice natural park all in downtown. Web sites: www.coeurdalene.org www.visitsandpoint.info

Wallace/kellog are old mining towns trying to reinvent themselves into more recreation tourism based areas. Not resorty by most charactoristics, but some rich history and legacy that is different from the resort areas which are lake/beach/shop areas. Easy drives and cheaper, but all depends on your interest levels. About 1 hour freeway from Spokane city limits.

You%26#39;ve had some great advice already; I%26#39;m throwing another option into the mix. Have you considered staying in Spokane the night before you leave? It really is a nice little city - the park downtown is beautiful, you can take a tram ride out over the falls, and there are some great restaurants downtown too, such as Rock City Grill and Azteca%26#39;s.

Thanks for all the great advice on the possible locations for our last night. I definitely haven%26#39;t ruled out just staying in Spokane. I imagine I could get a good rate via Priceline on some decent lodging. And I think after a week of camping/hiking in the wilderness, we%26#39;ll be up for some good dining and a comfy bed more than we would be for some tromping through the woods.

I also forgot that we will gain an hour going back to Spokane, so if Whitefish seems worthwhile, then we may just stay there and make sure to depart by 7:00am.

I second the suggestions for a trip to Sandpoint or a stop in Coeur d Alene. I looked into starting our trip in Sandpoint, but opted to spend more time on the east side of glacier instead. The area looks very much like a ';Jackson-type'; town.

We ended our Yellowstone vacation last year with a night in Kellogg, ID. Unless you have kids, I wouldn%26#39;t stop here. The waterpark at the condo was a nice change of pace for the family, but other than that there wasn%26#39;t much going on.

Lake Coeur D%26#39;alene (pronounced locally Cor Dah layne) is really beautiful. Sandpoint is also on a beautiful lake, Lake Pen D%26#39;Oreille (pronounced Pon Door Ay).

They%26#39;re both nice. If you stay there, pick a nice place on the lake, not one of the ones out on the interstate in the fast-food zone (Coeur D%26#39;Alene).

I think staying in downtown Spokane would be fun, too. Check out the parks where the Worlds Fair was once held. I wouldn%26#39;t stay in suburban Spokane (pronounced Spoke Ann). It is nice enough but not anything really special.

It is a good idea to get the room now, because I have been shut out of Spokane in the summer on occasion -- not a single room available.

Let me know if you choose Spokane. Rooms are only a problem during Ironman, hooppfest, the PNQ and bloomsday. Otherwise plenty of options.

Place to stay near airport

Never been to Billings and am confused about some of the other posts here about staying in the dangerous part of town, etc.....also some of the reviews on the hotel pages here are over 2 years old.....We will be arriving very late and want a clean, quiet place to stay for one night, one where it will be safe to park a rental car......any suggestions ??

Place to stay near airport

We stayed last year at the Best Western Kelly Inn. It is about 7 miles from the airport, which may be farther than you want. It was brand new and we were very pleased. Right in town, about a mile or so from the airport is the Rimrock which I have seen recommended on this site. I have also had family members stay there and they said it was fine.

Place to stay near airport

The Rimrock Inn is on North 27th Street which is the street you have to drive down from the airport on so it would be really convenient. It is only about 1 mile mile from the airport (and about a 3/4 mile from me lol). There is a Perkins Restaurant real close. That area is next to a huge hospital corridor for 2 hospitals. There are other hotels in that area either right on N 27th or a block off to the west. Right in the middle of the downtown area are some other hotels- one of the tallest buildings downtown being The Crown Plaza.

North 27th Street is really easy to access to I90 where you turn west and drive about 15 miles to the exit to go to either Red Lodge (northeast entrance over Beartooth Pass) or Cody (east entrance). If you want to enter through the north entrance (Gardiner) you%26#39;ll stay on I90.and then a straight shot through downtown and up to the airport.

For ease of driving off the interstate to the hotel and finding a place to eat I would probably recommend getting a hotel off Exit 446 (West Billings). You can drive through town to get there but probably the easiest (tho longer) route later at night would be to drive down N 27th until you get to I90 (maybe about 4 miles) and then turn west on the exit to I90. You would then drive maybe another 5 miles to get to Exit 446. There are a variety of hotels south and north of that exit. Three hotels I would recommend north of the exit are Spring Hill Suites by Marriot, Quality Inn Homestead, %26amp; C%26#39;Mon Inn. South of the exit- Holiday Inn and Billings Hotel %26amp; Convention. North of the exit are many different and easily accessible restaurants- In very close vacinity are: Outback Steak House, HuHot, Texas Roadhouse, Brunos (Italian), Fuddruckers, Red Lobster,Denny%26#39;s, Olive Garden, Old Chicago. Up the street about a mile is a Famous Dave%26#39;s and a Johnny Carinos (and some other hotels). On the south side of the interstate there is a Cracker Barrel.

The Days Inn is off the same exit at the Quality Inn but you have to make some weird street turns to get to it. There are other hotels/motels near it but its a little isolated as far as restaurants nearby.

You can never guarantee total safety but of the areas I%26#39;ve mentioned above are the ones I%26#39;d feel safest in.

Hopefully I%26#39;ve been of some help. If you need any more information ask away.

Deb

Best place to stay is in Homestead area. Great restaurants and good hotels. We stayed at the Quality Inn and Suites last year. Nice hot breakfast and very safe.

The airport is right up the hill from the hospital area. There are hotels near the hospital and down 27th Street. Downtown is more dangerous if you go south of the tracks at night, but I don%26#39;t think it qualifies as dangerous during normal hours. There are some very nice hotels down there.

The more modern area of Billings as at the south end of 24th St. West and King Avenue, and has the newest hotels and a lot of chain restaurants. It is not particularly close to the airport, but Billings is not that large of a town.

You could also go the other direction from the airport down Zimmerman Trail to hotels by Billings Metra Park in the Heights.

We have reservations for Hilton Garden Inn in June. Is this an ok area. We are not familiar with Billings and were also a bit concerned about the other posts.

To travelingjb

You don%26#39;t need to worry about the area of town that the Hilton Garden Inn is in. While you can%26#39;t guarantee safety anywhere, it is in one of the safest areas of town. It is off of King Ave/24th Street West where the main shopping/hotel/restaurant area is. It is off Exit 446 on I90 (north side). I%26#39;ve detailed that area in a previous post on this thread. There are so many new hotels in that area. I think the Hilton Garden Inn is just next to (west) Old Chicago Pizza %26amp; Pasta. If its the one I%26#39;m thinking it is its tucked behind some bigger stores and can be easy to miss if you arrive after dark. Are you driving or flying in? I missed going to Costco today because of snow. When I go next weekend I%26#39;ll check the exact location out for you.

Deb

Deb, thanks for the information. I did read your previous post about the exit and area but I couldn%26#39;t find the exit number for this hotel and I don%26#39;t think the street had been mentioned. We are flying in but our Billings stay is at the end of our trip. We are flying then going to Teton/Yellowstone for 5 days, next up to Ft. Benton then over to Glacier for 3 nights then to Missoula for a couple of nights then back to Billings. We thought we would spend one day in the Billings area doing some things such as the Custer Battlefield before our early flight the next day. We should be coming into Billings in the daylight but who knows. We are spur of the moment stoppers if something catches our interest.

Hidden Lake, Glinnell Lake and Redrock Lake hikes late July

We are arriving in Kalispell at 2:00 to pick up our car and go to Rising Sun Motor inn. I hope to be able to do the Hidden Lake hike that day on the way to our room. The next morning we will to to our Many Glacier room and I hope to take the Glinnell Lake boat hike and also the Redrock Lake hike. We are traveling with our kids who don%26#39;t like to hike. These are the best of the shortest hikes from what I can tell. If our kids bum out on us what hike would I cancel? If they have extra steam would the extra Glinell Glacier hike be too much. Also, How similar are these hikes? Take into consideration that we will be going to Jasper and Lake Louise a few days later.

Hidden Lake, Glinnell Lake and Redrock Lake hikes late July

Maybe you could just go to Hidden Lake Overlook, 3 miles roundtrip. That might be a good way to start with the kids, be forewarned this hike involves a lot of steps on a boardwalk, so don%26#39;t know how they will feel about that. RedRock is basically a flat 6-7 miles RT. You don%26#39;t need to hike the whole trail if you they don%26#39;t want to do it. I would stop at Fishercap Lake, about 1/4 to 1/2 mile down the trail to the left, lots of chances to see wildlife. If they feel like it you can go on to the falls, another 1 1/2 miles or so and then the lake. I would take the boat ride and then pick up the Grinnell Glacier trail. This will make it about 8 miles RT but it does have elevation gain. The views are great on the trail and the glacier might be something the kids enjoy. If I could only hike one of the above, my choice would be Grinnell, but I%26#39;m sure you will hear from others who would choose a different trail. I just think of the three mentioned, Grinnell offers a bigger variety of things to see. After re reading your post it seems you just want to hike from the boat to Grinnell Lake. This is a very short hike but I would try to get the kids to go on to the Glacier.

Hidden Lake, Glinnell Lake and Redrock Lake hikes late July

Of the three you mention, all are nice in their own way. There%26#39;s pictures on our website that try to show what they are like.

http://www.alandsuejohnson.com/glacier_np.htm

At the top, there%26#39;s buttons for Hidden Lake, Grinnell Glacier and Red Rock Falls. Grinnell is beautiful. All offer the possibility of seeing wildlife.

Fishercap Lake is nice in its own right but with some luck, you can see moose in there. We spent a whole day watching moose when we should have been hiking.

The hikes aren%26#39;t anything alike all 3 are different. I don%26#39;t think there%26#39;s a good way to predict the kids. They may (with any luck) see these trails as something much different than what they expected. The possibility of a bear may at some suspense they don%26#39;t normally get hiking too.

You have a long first day it sounds like and maybe the hidden lake (overlook) won%26#39;t be what everyone wants to do. However, it would be a good way to get some activity that day. This should be a great way to see mountain goats (don%26#39;t know if that would be an attraction to the kids or not).

It is tough, but next morning get up b 4 sunrise and drive the 1/2 mile to wild goose island overlook for a fantastic sunrise on the mountains.

Redrock is OK, but for the extra mile up to bullhead the chances of moose are very good.

Grinnel is nice and a good learning experience on global warming effects. Often bears are encountered along the route and sometimes moose.

Some thoughts:

Your first day. By the time you get the car, figure 2:30; park entrance, close to 3:30; vistor center where Hidden Lake hike begins, close to 5:00, depending upon construction. You%26#39;re looking at a long day. Definitely, only do the hike to the Hidden Lake viewpoint. To hike to the lake itself might be too long even if the kids liked hiking. The hike to the viewpoint is pretty easy with great views.

Next day: Don%26#39;t confuse the hike to Grinell Lake -- easy -- with the hike to Grinnell Glacier, moderately hard. If the kids don%26#39;t like hiking, I%26#39;d recommend the boat ride and the easy hike to the lake. The glacier hike has a good bit of uphill huffing and puffing. It%26#39;s a spectacular hike, but probably not for those who don%26#39;t like hiking.

I appreciate all the good advice. I like the idea that all the hikes are different and that there is wildlife opportunities in each. I think we would stop and enjoy the moose instead of hiking as well.

I think we will be okay with a hike the first day and if I%26#39;m right there should be plenty of sun if we reach Logan Pass by 5:00. But when does the shade start to settle in from the mountains? I would think that the Hidden lake 3 mile RT wouldn%26#39;t take very long.

I checked the sunrise for the dates that we would be there and it is at 5:40. I realize it starts earlier. I wouldn%26#39;t want to wake up to clouds but the idea of a sunrise or sunset sounds awesome. I know that I would be up for it and I do have a tendancy to suggest wild things like getting up early and find myself to be the only taker. I%26#39;m game even if they are not. Where would be an easy spot to go see the sunrise or sunset? Also, 4:00? That seems aweful early.

I like the idea of a sunrise or sunset but I suppose the sunrise would be best for where we will be. Sunrise for the time we will be there is at 5:45 (July 16th) correct?

Also, are there shorter hikes where we can check out moose? We will also be going to Banff and Jasper. I%26#39;ve seen a moose at Yellowstone. Awesome.

Fishercap lake is a pretty good bet to see moose. It is the same trail as Redrock Falls/Lake and is only 1/2 mile or so from Swiftcurrent.

Nearest Showers to Two Medicine Campground

We plan on camping at Two Medicine Campground at least a couple nights. Anyone aware of any shower facilities near-by? Possibly in East Glacier? Worst comes to worst...any lakes streams that won%26#39;t freeze us to wash up in?

Nearest Showers to Two Medicine Campground

The KOA in St. Mary may be a possibility and there are showers at Swiftcurrent Lodge / Store that are available to the public with the purchase of a token from the store, bring a towel.

Nearest Showers to Two Medicine Campground

The KOA and Swiftcurrent are quite a distance away from East Glacier. here is the visitors info phone number, maybe they can help. Post here if you find one as I am not aware of any and often just ';jump in the lake';.

(406) 226-4403

And consider eating at Serranos (mexican), best food I have found in town.

Yes, Brownies in East Glacier offers showers. It also serves as a bakery/deli and backpacking hostel. Just go under the bridge towards Glacier, and it%26#39;s on the right side of the road just past the golf course and East Glacier Lodge.

AS for washing up, I don%26#39;t think Glacier is keen on using soap in streams and lakes. However, Two Medicine campground (Seen here):

parkcamper.com/Glacier-National-Park/Glacier鈥?/a>

Has really nice bathrooms and you could get away with using baby wipes or something in the stalls for a semi-clean up. Just be sure to clean up any excess water.

Wolverine99, yes. Correct, no soaps in the lakes or streams. I rinse off, use biodegradable soap (which they still don%26#39;t like) but have a water container and towel and do this on the rocks away from the lake and rinse off there.

I%26#39;m good with the lake/stream non-soap bath. Done my share of them. Just need to find a way to convince my wife that a quick frigid dip is better than a warm shower.

get their medical advice

Bundu Bashers

Has anyone heard of this tour company? Are they reputable? My initial phone call to them was not pleasant, so now I have concerns. This is the only company I can find that will provide tours from Salt Lake City. Are there other tours that will depart from SLC? Thank you for any and all responses.

Bundu Bashers

Hello. I was a tour guide in Yellowstone for 12 years. With just a quick review of the Bundu Basher website, a company I%26#39;d never heard of until your post, I noticed several things that alarm me. First, their lead photo for Yellowstone shows someone ';posing'; by a bison, This person could have gotten seriously injured! It is against park policy to get that close as well. Second, some of the info they give is quite inaccurate. For example, ';The Lower Falls is over twice the size of Niagra Falls!'; That water fall is 308 feet high, which is ALMOST twice as tall as Niagra. Third, they show pictures of bears all over the roads. If you see even one bear on your visit you will be very lucky. Their site just looks misleading to me.

You would be much better off renting a car to get to the park, then taking a tour once there. There are several local companies in West Yellowstone to choose from; I personally would recommend Yellowstone Tour Guides. For an even better guided trip through the park, call Xanterra Parks and resorts and resrve a spot riding in one of the historic touring cars. They are coming back into service this summer for the first time in many years. Xanterra%26#39;s guides are professionally trained as well.

Bundu Bashers

And I thought I was the only one. Thank God for the inventor of internet fora and blogs!

I was seconds away from booking a %26#39;viator%26#39; tour operated by %26#39;bundubashers%26#39;, but I%26#39;ve already received really bad service via e-mail and over the phone by %26#39;bundubashers%26#39; (%26#39;viator%26#39; were extremely helpful and professional). When I e-mailed %26#39;bundubashers%26#39; with several questions, the reply I received was %26#39;call us on this number%26#39; (!) and when I called tham I received impersonal, cold service from someone who although sounded knowledgeable discouraged me from using their service. He gave me the feeling of a company that does not exist, looking to con first-time travelers to the Canyon (like me).

I have performed various searches on the internet and almost nothing comes up for Bundubashers apart from their sponsored site; I got plenty of information for %26#39;viator%26#39;, %26#39;allvegastours%26#39; and %26#39;grandcanyontours%26#39; but not %26#39;bundubashers%26#39;. I am a manager and was once trained to avoid anything that gives you the slightest feeling of insecurity and discomfort. And that%26#39;s EXACTLY what I%26#39;m going to do with %26#39;bundubashers%26#39;.

Thank you, Thank you for both of your posts. I too have received terrible communications/phone service from this company. I was so against the 5 hour drive from SLC to Yellowstone, I almost booked with them I decided to bite the bullet and rent a vehicle and drive to the Parks myself.

Good for you Aquablue,..

I wish I could do the same but I am pressed for time and, although I%26#39;ve rented a car, I%26#39;m looking for a heli tour instead.

Fortunately, the tours on the ';bundubashers'; site are offered by other credible companies like viator, looktours, allvegastours and lasvegasgrandcanyontour (just add the familiar .com ending and you%26#39;ll find them all there).

I%26#39;ve done so much research I feel I%26#39;m an expert on the tours offered. All I need to do is finally decide to book one. I wish you have a great time there. Drop me a line if you happen to be there around the end of May (20th) by any chance. Take care,

Costas

Lazulite - Just wanted to tell you that this spring has been a great one so far for bear sightings! The first of the baby bison are just starting to be born and there will be plenty by the time you come. Still a lot of snow in the higher mountains (added more during our recent snowstorms) but roads are clearing quickly!

Cheers yellowstonefan.

Can%26#39;t wait to be there in exactly one month. I%26#39;ve already booked my tour of the South Rim/GCNP and really can%26#39;t wait to experience it. Take care my internet pals. See you all soon in Vegas.

Costas

Trying to decide between west rim and south rim. I have never been to GC. I want to see the best sights. ALso is Bundu Basher a good tour company? Not much info, a friend of a friend said they were fine.

I should have read about this topic before I joined Bundu tour...

I went to Yellowstone several days ago by using this company. Yellowstone was awesome, but we had a terrible experience with this company.

They provided so much incorrect information such as when and where they would pick us up. There were so much poor operation that I can not write down all of them, but most horrible thing was the attitude of the guy who actually arranged this tour. This company seems outsource a tour arrangement to that guy who runs an internet cafe near the motel we stayed. We went into that cafe to know the next day%26#39;s pick up time, and tried to get the detailed information about this tour. But he just repeated pick up time and said ';I can cancel your reservation if you are not satisfied with this tour. I won%26#39;t give you any information if you do not sign this chit. '; in impatient voice. So we had no alternative but to sign the credit card chit. But he didn%26#39;t give us tour detail. Still and all we tried to ask him, but at last, he said ';You are crazy. Get out of here!!';

This is no exaggeration. Just terrible.

I never never never use this company!!!

I was on the tour with this guy napanapa (he likes wines from napa valley and never seems to stop boozing it up), and he did not stop complaining. Just like you have to sign a credit card thing when you stay at a hotel so that was all that Bundu Bashers wanted. We had a great time with them - they went out of their way to show us stuff and even gave us an extra western cookout at no charge. It was an awesome tour. The difference was that our guide Josh knew the park and knew where to take us to show us the erupting geysers and bears and all that stuff. Good tour.

yoyoskiboy, can you tell me the name of the tour you were on? You said Josh was a good guide.

Thanks.

Denny Creek Cabin

Hi all.

I%26#39;m new to you alls board.

We have reservations to Denny Creek Cabin. Has anyone ever stayed there before?

We won%26#39;t be arriving until the first of September, so we%26#39;re just ancious for any details. The pictures of the cabin are beutiful and look very comfortable. I%26#39;ve spoken to the owners a couple times and they are very polite and friendly. We can%26#39;t wait to meet them.

I did a search on this board for the cabin, but didn%26#39;t turn up anything. Surely, someone has something to say about it.

These forums are great! When we took our Alaska vacation, we gathered as much information we could and met new forum friends. I can honestly say, we got the biggest bang for the buck when we visited Alaska. It was Fantastic. We are equally excited to visit Yellowstone National Park.

Thanks.

Chas.

Denny Creek Cabin

You may get a better response posting on the Yellowstone forum in Wyoming! There are many people that post there that live in West Yellowstone!

Denny Creek Cabin

Are you referring to the Denny Creek cabin at the Bar N Ranch in West Yellowstone? If you are, then we stayed there this past Sept. Confirm that this is what you are referring to and I%26#39;ll give you my thoughts.

Tarheel,

I believe you stayed up the road a little ways from where we%26#39;ve rented.

This is the cabin I refer too.

www.vrbo.com/global/siteFrame.asp鈥?/a>

Have you done a trip report yet? I%26#39;d love to read another Tarheel traveler%26#39;s adventure to Yellowstone.

Ain%26#39;t Vacations neat!

If you visit Alaska, I really tried to hit the bases on our adventure. We had a blast, and can%26#39;t wait to go back. Check out my trip report.

Thanks

Chas.

red lipstick

Traveling with a Toddler: Itinerary suggestions

We are planning to travel from the Seattle area to Glacier this summer. Dates are up in the air. We have a 2-year-old, and my grandparents (70s but plenty mobile) may likely join us as well.

So, I%26#39;m looking for itinerary suggestions. I%26#39;m considering driving as far as Spokane or Coeur d%26#39;Alene in one day, then towards West Glacier the second day.

Beyond that? Don%26#39;t know. Looking for many short walks we could do. (Personally, I love a good eight-mile-or-so walk, but the 2-year-old isn%26#39;t up for that yet. Not even in a stroller). So, I%26#39;m looking for one-half to 2-mile hikes through various scenery.

Having a hard time deciding where to ';base';. The lodges look nice but it looks like most of them have noise issues. We%26#39;ll be more comfortable in a cabin-type of situation: a kitchenette where we can make mac-and-cheese on demand, without a train rumbling by every few hours all night. (Electricity good; TV, don%26#39;t care) But is there a good spot for this to visit most of the park, and Waterton? Or would we be better off staying a few nights on the west side, then a few nights on the east side, something like that?

I was thinking of September after Labor Day, hoping most people would have gone home to get their kids into school, but Labor Day happens pretty late this year, so maybe that%26#39;s not a good idea. Maybe late August is better? I loathe moquitoes and bees, and I%26#39;m told the mosquitoes are worst in July.

I%26#39;d LOVE to avoid crowds, but when I tried to visit in late June 2004, we were beaten back by snow, snow, and more snow. (And then a ton more snow on top of that). So, if that second full week in September is a good bet, I%26#39;m happy, but if it%26#39;s at all likely to be a blizzard, I%26#39;d be better off dealing with the crowds. I hope it%26#39;s not already too late to book.

Looking to spend about a week for the trip.

So, itinerary suggestions most welcome! Thanks!

Traveling with a Toddler: Itinerary suggestions

I think Sept. is a great time, we have visited often that time of year. If you are looking for a cabin, check www.vrbo.com. Near Babb, which is near Many Glacier, and a wonderful part of the park, many people have recommended Don%26#39;s Hideaway. I think I would consider staying near Babb, St. Mary area, where ever you can get a cabin. You might consider one night on the west side of the park just to enjoy Lake Mcdonald and then you could drive across the park and not have to rush back. Village Inn is on the shore of the lake and has family rooms with kitchenette. If you travel after Sept. 15 though, the road across the park will be closed for construction. You will be able to travel to Logan Pass from one side or the other, but not all the way across.

Traveling with a Toddler: Itinerary suggestions

Also forgot to mention, the east side of the park will provide you closer access to Waterton, about an hours drive from the Babb area.