Montana Beer Festival

I%26#39;m considering attending the festival at the fairgounds on april 10th. Is it practical to get around without a rental car? My interests center on food and drink in the downtown area.

thanks

Montana Beer Festival

I would say that since your interests center around beer consumption that walking would be better than driving.

Cheers!

Montana Beer Festival

Practical? In early April? Probably not, given that it%26#39;s still winter-weather here, and it%26#39;s the heavier, sloppier spring snow right now. But it is certainly do-able if you dress for it, since the fairgrounds are only about a 3/4 mile walk from the downtown restaurants and bars, through neighborhoods with sidewalks. In nicer weather, it%26#39;s a very pleasant stroll -- who knows, you may get lucky! And the previous recommendation about not mixing driving and drinking is a good one!

You%26#39;ve made me curious - I have never heard of the Montana Beer Festival - what%26#39;s it all about?

Off to google......

All. Thanks for the confirmations of what I should expect: weather-wise and distance-wise. I%26#39;ve booked my flight and I%26#39;m looking forward to it. I%26#39;ll be prepared. I remember some great beers from last summer. (and spectacular countryside)

The festival website says free transportation is provided through Bozeman every hour.

Plans are set

The plans are final for July 2010 trip. There are five of us, 4 adults and 1 child (will be 5) traveling by car from WA. We%26#39;ll be gone 9 nights.

July 5: Reserved two nights in cabins in E Glacier Park. Plenty of time for relaxing and recovery from the long drive out before really hitting the trails. From here explore the Two Medicine area.

July 7: Reserved three nights at Many Glacier Hotel in a lakeview suite. Would like to do hiking, take the red bus tour to Waterton with my mother-in-law, and a boat ride for my son.

July 10: Looking for condo in Whitefish for four nights. Can%26#39;t decide between on the mountain, in town or something in between. We%26#39;re thinking about saving money and staying up on the mountain. Any thoughts?

On the way to Whitefish we%26#39;ll do GTTS road. Any hiking or sights that need more time on the west side we can go back to from Whitefish. Any suggestions for must see sights? My mother-in-law is not a hiker so she%26#39;ll be hanging out around lodges while we%26#39;re on the trail. I was told about a waterpark in Columbia Falls, thought it might be a nice break from outdoors for my son, anyone been there?

Plans are set

Just don%26#39;t forget Hidden Lake Overlook when you get to Logan Pass on GTTSR. 3 mile round trip and a beautiful view. We had mountain goats walking with us part of the way although I don%26#39;t know if that%26#39;s common.

Plans are set

What type of hiking trails are you interested in? Many from the Many Glacier area are in the 10-12 mile range with elevation changes. Will this be too much, especially with a five y.o. or will he be staying with Grandma? There is also (or was last year) a go-kart track in Columbia Falls.

RE: the condo in Whitefish, on the mountain or in town: unless Grandma will have her own car, it might be betteer to have a place closer to town, preferably walking distance to town. There are lots of fun things to do in the town of Whitefish, nice parks, walks, galleries, etc., but up on the ski resort mountain it%26#39;s a bit removed.

Whitefish Beach is a great public beach for swimming. The lakes in GNP are rather cold for swimming, but both Flathead Lake and Whitefish Lake are warmer.

The Columbia Falls waterpark would be lovely if it%26#39;s hot. You can%26#39;t miss it, it%26#39;s right on the highway.

The Great Bear Adventure is always on my ';recommended list';. It%26#39;s near Coram, look for the big yellow fence right on the highway. There are things like a maze, go carts, a mystery house, so lots of fun but touristy things to do.

Enjoy!

For Whitefish: Are the shops and dining open during the summer on the mountain or does it mostly shut down? We%26#39;re looking to finish the trip somewhere nicer after being in ';rustic'; lodings in the park but still want the peaceful, quite feeling. My husband and I really need a place to sit on the deck and relax, but don%26#39;t want or traveling partners to get bored.

Hiking: We%26#39;re all in pretty good shape and usually do a bit of hiking at home throughout the summer. About 10 miles would probably be a good day. My problem is with the elevation changes and usually try to choose hikes with less than 1000 ft change. With my son, this year will be his first hiking. he%26#39;s to big for the backpack now. We%26#39;re going to try to have him up to a mile by the end of summer and we%26#39;ll see how it goes. He really loves being on the trail and has always done some walking on his own, so I%26#39;m hoping his transition is esay.

Grinnell Glacier hike will be 11 miles RT (or 8 if you take the boat trip)with about a 1600 ft. elevation gain. Iceberg Lake is 10 miles RT and about 1200 ft. elevation change. Avalanche Lake is about 5 miles and a 500 ft. change, Hidden Lake Overlook aobut 3 miles and I think has less than 500 ft. elevation change. Fishercap Lake, Redrock Falls and Bullhead lake are all on the same trail with hardly any elevation change. To Bullhead and back is about six miles. Hope this helps you decide if your son will be able to do these. You can always start and turn back if it becomes too much.

I don%26#39;t know what stays open and what closes up on Big Mountain (now called Whitefish Mountain, with it%26#39;s new ownership). You could contact the Whitefish Chamber of Commerce, or you could contact the Whitefish Mountain Resort itself.

The entire town of Whitefish stays lively and is a happening place all year long. It%26#39;s a small town though, more like the size and feel of Hood River, if you are familiar with that town.

red lipstick

1rst night: Whitefish, Kalispell, or Columbia Falls?

We fly into Spokane on a Friday afternoon. Then we%26#39;ll drive to the West Glacier area and should arrive there around 8:00pm or 9:00pm. Would we be best to book a room in Whitefish, Kalispell or Columbia Falls?

Won%26#39;t have much time wherever we stay because of our late arrival and our plan to leave early for Two Medicine Campground the next morning. We will need to stop by an outfitter (either that evening or the following morning) to pick up some fuel for our campstove. Also, we will need to do some grocery shopping for 1rst lag of our camping trip.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

1rst night: Whitefish, Kalispell, or Columbia Falls?

I am assuming since it is one night and you arrive later, that cheaper is good. There is a Super 8 right at the interesection of HWY 2 and the cutoff road from the tri-corner grocery, right on the way into West Glacier. Also, Mountain Shadows Resort (not a resort) across the street. Both have hot tubs, to ease the stress of the days travels. There is a store/gas just up the street, or options in Hungry Horse and West Glacier as you drive in on HWY 2.

1rst night: Whitefish, Kalispell, or Columbia Falls?

I think K2Kelly is referring to the Super 8 in Columbia Falls (Columbia Falls Heights, they call that area). Columbia Falls puts you closest to West Glacier, so that would be a good choice. There is a huge grocery store called Super One on the west side of Columbia Falls, and they most likely have campstove fuel. They%26#39;re open 24 hours. There is also an army-navy store in CF that will definitely have the fuel.

If the CF Super 8 is booked up (and it does book up) staying in either Kalispell or Whitefish only adds 20 additional minutes to your drive.

Remember that you lose one hour when you come from Spokane to MT. Also that it stays light until about 10:30 pm in June, getting darker sooner each evening as the summer wears on.

Enjoy the trip!

Yes, Thanks Riverdays for the clarity on my drafty suggestion!

Going-To-The-Sun Road - car, shuttle, Red Bus tour???

We%26#39;ll be at the park for one day on July 3rd. I%26#39;m thinking we should park the car and either take the shuttle or the Red Bus tour. We won%26#39;t be hiking - just want to see the pretty scenery. Do you think it would be worth paying for the tour? There are two that I%26#39;m considering - one for $55 and one for $80 - probably the $55 one would be fine. Or...do you think the shuttle would be just as good? Or would you recommend just driving it???

Thank you.

Going-To-The-Sun Road - car, shuttle, Red Bus tour???

I%26#39;ll be the one to say, ';Don%26#39;t drive';. There is ongoing construction, the road is narrow and has quite a bit of traffic on it. If you drive, you have to be watching the road and the other traffic. If you take a Red Jammer bus tour, someone else who has driven the road a bunch will be doing that while you get to see the scenery and they narrate. You%26#39;ll enjoy the trip more that way.

The shuttle (if it is running then) will have the experienced driver who may or may not point out or narrate the trip. Narration isn%26#39;t part of their job but some will tell you things to look for and perhaps a little of the history of the park or the road. Sometimes you have to wait a while for a bus with seats available and you have to change busses at Logan Pass as the shuttle from each side only go to the top and back.

If you have nice weather, the Red Jammers have tops that can be removed so you really can see the scenery. For the shuttles, you have nice windows, but you can only see out the side you are seated on.

Going-To-The-Sun Road - car, shuttle, Red Bus tour???

Thank you for your reply. Do you think the shorter one would be good enough or would you recommend the longer one? Maybe we should go for the longer one.

We will in Glacier around the 20th of June for 2 days. We were wondering about tours also. We had thought about the Red Bus to GTTS road also. Do we need to make reservations. Will it be open at that time?

The GNP Inside page has some info on shuttles available in the park; you might want to start there.

I%26#39;ve seen the Red Jammer buses and heard reports about them but since I haven%26#39;t taken one, I had to look up the web page about them. From what I heard, I expected a couple of tours but found that they offer much more. With just the one day to visit, I think I would want to take one of their tours instead of the shuttle, although the shuttle is free. It would be nice to have a set time to be picked up and dropped off instead of waiting for a shuttle with room on a day that is likely to be crowded. Much more information about the tours is available here:

www.glacierparkinc.com/Transportation/Reds/

Here%26#39;s a link to some pictures we took on our Red Bus Tour. We went from Swiftcurrent to Lake McDonald and back.

alandsuejohnson.com/western%20parks%20trip/r鈥?/a>

It was a nice trip. We made several stops. As you can tell in the pics, we even saw some wildlife. It wasn%26#39;t cheap but it was stress free and we both got to enjoy the view.

agree with all above, little stress, narration and scenery.

if only 1-day, this is a great option.

I think we%26#39;ll take one of the tours from the West side - just have to decide if the 6 1/2 hour one is good enough or if we should take the 8 hour one. the photos were great!!! Hope we have such good luck with the weather with nice blue skies.

I think we will also take the Red Bus tour. The pictures were great. How far in advance are reservations needed. I have found it is very helpful to take a tour the first time you visit then you know where you need to go after that. I like the idea of stress free and both enjoying the view.

We made our reservations the day before we went. It was a last minute thing since some of the trails were closed.

Family travel with 9 month and 4 year old

We are planning on a trip and have a few to choose from, Big Sky, MT being one of them. Obviously the 9 month old will not care where we go, but we have a 4 year old daughter. Do you think MT could be the trip for us, or do you think she is too young to do anything there? We are looking for a fun family friendly trip. We would be going in August. Thanks for any and all advice, it is much appreciated!!

Family travel with 9 month and 4 year old

We had a 4yo in our group when we were there. The resort is quite nice, and she had a lot of fun riding the lift up to the top of the mountain and going on a short horseback ride at a local dude ranch. She also liked the time we spend down at Old Faithful and it wasn%26#39;t too much of a ride.

We had girl cousins for her to follow around, and other cousins to read to her and watch her endlessly showing new fancy dives into the pool, so that was cheating on our part!

I really liked it there.

A similar mountain/outdoors place with a little more in the way of developed activity would be the resort in Sun River,Oregon. You can day trip to Crater Lake, go to the Museum of the High Desert, Lava Tube, Lava Cast Forest, lots of bike journeys (most of the rental houses come with bikes).

July-Aug 10 day Itinerary

I%26#39;ve been reading the postings on the forum and am so thankful for the terrific advice and comments. These have been a tremendous help in planning our late July/early August 10-day trip. I think I am almost finished!

I would greatly appreciate your opinions and feedback on the itinerary below.

My thought is to stay in Apgar one night to see that side of the park. Does this make sense or should I spend the time in Rising Sun or Many Glacier or another location?

Thank you in advance!

ITINERARY:

1 night in Apgar

3 nights in Rising Sun

2 nights in Waterton

3 nights in Many Glacier

Drive via Route 2 to Kalispell

HIKES:

The hikes are based on the ones mentioned in the forum (being flexible, of course!). I%26#39;m not certain which day we will do which hike: Highline, Grinnell, Iceberg, Red Rock Falls to Fisher Cap Lake and possibly Bullhead Lake, Scenic Point, Hidden Lake, St Mary/VA falls.

Head to Two Medicine area for day hike from Rising Sun: Running Eagle Falls or Twin Falls.

While In Waterton: Goat Haunt and Koutanni Lake late in the afternoon.

July-Aug 10 day Itinerary

I think Apgar is worth one night, you can hike Avalanche Lake while in the area, and Lake McDonald is beautiful. Rising Sun is convenient for hikes along the GTTSR and also Otokomi Lake trail. My only change would be to drop one night at Rising Sun and try to add that night to Many Glacier. I only say that because Many Glacier is my favorite area of the park. There are so many hikes from that area. Also as you go around the park on 2, that might be a good time to stop in the Two Medicine area to avoid backtracking.

July-Aug 10 day Itinerary

I agree with hikes on trying to add another night at Many Glacier.

You go past Fishercap to get to Red Rock falls for whatever that%26#39;s worth. Pleasant kind of warm up hike. JUst keep going for Bullhead Lake.

Grinnell is beautiful in my opinion. It wore me out but it was worth it. HIdden Lake is also worth is when you drive across Going to the Sun Road.

We tried to show what some of these hikes looked like on our website.

http://www.alandsuejohnson.com/glacier_np.htm

If you look at the buttons at the top, you should see names of hikes which correspond to the above. Iceberg never opened while we were there. Bear activity. No reason you shouldn%26#39;t love Glacier. Its a beautiful place.

hikes %26amp; AKJ have given you some great advice here! I also agree with taking one of your nights in Rising Sun and changing it to Many Glacier. It is such a beautiful place! I also think spending one night in Apgar is very appropriate. On your way over to Rising Sun, make sure you do the short hike to Hidden Lake Overlook. Avalanche Lake/Trail of the Cedars are also great, but I like Hidden Lake Overlook more. If you can do both on your way over to Rising Sun, I would do that...and it%26#39;s very, very doable. You will enjoy Lake McDonald too.

Make sure you check out AKJ%26#39;s website...it%26#39;s a great resource!

I really like the hikes you have chosen. And, as AKJ mentioned, you pass Fishercap Lake on the way to Red Rock Falls. Fishercap is about 1/4 mile from the trailhead %26amp; Red Rock Falls is about 1 1/2 to 2 miles from the trailhead. Bullhead Lake is about 3 1/2 miles from the trailhead, and I recommend that hike. Fishercap is great for moose watching, especially in the late afternoon.

Highline, Grinnell, Iceberg, Bullhead, and Hidden Lake Overlook are all must-do%26#39;s. If you are set on going to Two Medicine one day, I also think it%26#39;s a great idea to do Scenic Point %26amp; Running Eagle Falls. Make sure you do Scenic Point first thing because the morning is when the lighting is best. I don%26#39;t think I%26#39;d spend the time to do Twin Falls unless you want to take the boat cruise too. Instead, I would probably recommend hiking St. Mary/Virginia Falls afterwards. I know it%26#39;s not in the same part of the park, but it%26#39;s not too far from St. Mary. If for some reason you cannot hike one of the trails, I would recommend Siyeh Pass, Cracker Lake, and Ptarmigan Tunnel as alternatives.

Anyway, it sounds like you%26#39;ve got a very nice plan working out here! I%26#39;m excited for your trip! : ) Be sure to hit us back with any questions/concerns.

Also, here%26#39;s a link to all of my travel photos. You will see some listed as Glacier Day 1, Glacier Day 2, etc. from my 2006 trip, and my 2008 trip photos are under the tab ';Glacier Trip 2008';

s143.photobucket.com/albums/r122/TNsoccer07/

Sean

Thank you Hikes, AKJ and Sean. I%26#39;ve swapped out one day at Rising Sun for another day at Many Glacier.

I feel great about the planning and now I%26#39;ve moved to stocking up on hiking clothes and other items.

All the photos and advice are so helpful and I will report back after our trip!

Many Thanks,

Twink

I agree with the others - you%26#39;ve got a great selection of hikes there. Iceberg, Grinnell and Hidden Lake are just phenomenal. And stop at Lake McDonald and take a dip - cold as heck but a beautiful setting among pine forest (very different from the east side of the park). And Scenic Point is a must-do in my opinion...just a mind blowing view from the summit...you really get the sense of standing atop the ';Great Divide.';

If you do head to two med to hike, consider dawson pass. Not difficult, if weather is good, provides great views to the next basin that few visit. You could make a long loop, 16 miles and come around ptamahkin (sp) pass and old man lake, or just reverse out.

I%26#39;m going to offer something a bit different based on my own preferences and experiences:

1 night in Apgar - IMHO Apgar is a nice campground but very busy in late July with the sound of very large RV%26#39;s. It%26#39;s a beautiful campground, but I much prefer it in spring or fall where it%26#39;s very quiet and peaceful.

I would change this one night in Apgar to one night in Avalanche. While Avalanche is very busy as well, it also offers an old growth cedar rainforest and a hike to spectacular Avlanche Lake. Apgar%26#39;s advantage is that%26#39;s it%26#39;s close to the very beautiful North Fork of Flathead River and the exit point of McDonals Creek from McDonald Lake.

3 nights in Rising Sun - Rison Sun is a tiny campground that%26#39;s right on the road. You may find that staying for three days here is a bit much. It%26#39;s spectacular though. You can see what these campgrounds actually look like here and make informed decisions from that:

parkcamper.com/Glacier-National-Park/Glacier鈥?/a>

2 nights in Waterton - Possible border searches and IMHO there%26#39;s no advantage to Waterton over Glacier. I would eliminate both of these days unless you have reservations at the hotel. I would use both days for Two Medicine campground, which is a joy with numerous hiking trails.

3 nights in Many Glacier - Many Glacier is awesome. :)

Drive via Route 2 to Kalispell - Yes. Fantastic scenery. Gorgeous. Don%26#39;t forget to stop at Goat Lick which is right off the road.

So, revised itinierary based on my own personal preferences and experience for that time of year:

1 night at Apgar (check out North Fork of Flathead and take it easy, enjoy some of the shops)

2 nights at Avalanche

3 nights in Many Glacier

3 nights in Two Medicine (closer to Kalispell and U.S. 2 for the way back)

This gives you a fairly varied and yet fairly relaxed experience in the park. You get the rugged east side mixed with the greener west side. It also gives you a couple nice 3 day chunks at Many Glacier and Two Medicine to take in the numerous and incredible dayhikes with a more relaxed pace. Both areas are outstanding car camping spots with unlimited hiking options right from the campground. Avalanche offers quick access to Going to the Sun Road and HIdden Lake, while also offering an awesome hike right from the campground up to Avalanche Lake. The old growth cedar forest and tranquil creek provide an interesting contrast to the stay at Many Glacier and Two Medicine.

Crater Lake in Oregon or Glacier National Park?

This is a question for those of you who have been to both places:

If you had a week in early September to visit only 1 of them, which would you choose, all things considered?

Thanks

Crater Lake in Oregon or Glacier National Park?

Oops, I forgot to include some information. I have never been to either place and I enjoy some hiking, but am more of a scenic sightseer. My dates are September 1st through the 8th.

Crater Lake in Oregon or Glacier National Park?

I can%26#39;t compare the two locations for you.

We did spend 5 days at Glacier and enjoyed it. Here%26#39;s a link to a trip report and several pictures showing what some of the trails and scenic areas look like.

http://www.alandsuejohnson.com/glacier_np.htm

To most enjoy Glacier, you need to do some hiking in my opinion. Not extensive back country jaunts, but get out on the trails a little.

Crater Lake is a beautiful site but I would find it hard to fill a week there. Glacier has a variety of scenery: mountains, lakes, forests. Even the shorter moderate hikes offer you the chance to see and enjoy many things. The GTTSR is a wonderful drive and the vistas unbelievable. If you want scenery and photo taking opportunities, I would go to Glacier. The first week of Sept. should be great. Call now for reservations. I would try to stay a few nights on each side of the park (Village Inn or Lake McDonald lodge on the west and Swiftcurrent or Many Glacier on the east). You can also make a daytrip to Waterton from the Many Glacier area.

I%26#39;ve been to both. Crater Lake is amazing but really that%26#39;s the whole show there. Once you see you%26#39;ve seen it all. There%26#39;s a lot more variety in Glacier. That week in Sept. is typically of of the driest or most sunny in the Northwest so if there was a time of year to do Crater that would definitely be it. A week would definitely be too much for just Crater Lake but nearby there are lots of other interesting things such as lava caves, waterfalls and the area around Bend is very scenic. But there%26#39;s a lot more to do and see at Glacier.

I%26#39;ve been to Crater Lake but not Glacier. Crater Lake can really be seen in a day. Based on what I have read on Glacier, I think it might be easier to fill a week of time there.

However, as Sequim said, there is more than enough in Oregon to fill a week. You can incorporate Crater Lake nicely into an Oregon trip. Bend is great, as Sequim mentioned, and you could even include Mt. Hood,, the Columbia River Gorge, and some of the Portland attractions. If you enjoy the coast, you could even substitute some time there instead of seeing some of the things I mentioned. Take a look on the Oregon forums. There are many regulars who would be glad to make suggestions for you on sights to see. Have fun planning!

I agree, either would be good, but as you%26#39;ve seen in this forum, Crater Lake can be done in one day. However, Oregon is one of my favorite places to visit. I worked for a hotel chain in the state, and was able to see almost all of the state from the Cascades west to the coast. Oregon has the most covered bridges in the US, and along the Columbia River on the old highway, spectacular water falls. The Oregon coast is even more beautiful than Northern California, and that%26#39;s saying a lot. We also love Glacier, and if you have to choose just one place to go for your vacation, that would be it. We fell in love with the Many Glaciers Lodge, and the spectacular scenery there.

Crater Lake is one of my favorite places on Earth but you don%26#39;t need a week there. As others said, you may want to make it part of an Oregon vacation. I also love Oregon and highly recommend it.

That said, Glacier is amazing and beauriful. You will be able to fill a week in Glacier especially if you like to hike. A week will also allow you to really explore all areas of the park. The Two Medicine area, which is a bit east of GTTS Road, is definitely worth a day or two. And the Many Glacier area is prime for hiking. I didn%26#39;t make it to the North Fork area but I%26#39;ve heard that it is a beautiful area with great hiking.

Enjoy!

Thanks for your input everyone. I%26#39;ll be going to Glacier in September, based on your comments here and in the Crater Lake forum. Maybe next year I%26#39;ll fly into Reno and do a combination of Lake Tahoe, Crater Lake and a jetboat from Grant%26#39;s Pass.

Yes, next time if you do the Crater Lake trip from Reno be sure to make a visit also to Lassen Peak NP. Lots to see including bubling mud pots ala Yellowstone as well as if you are inclined you can climb to the top via a trail from the road%26#39;s high point near Eagle Pk. Even just going part way up affords spectaular views to the E-SE. Lassen would be a great addition to Crater with much of the same volcanic history.

This time around...enjoy Glacier!

When you do go to Crater Lake, be sure to go north into the Newberry Volcano area and Sun River. It is a very interesting visit, and really part of a Crater Lake trip.

Lava Tube

Museum of the High Desert

Lava Cast Forest

lots more!

looking for help planning trip glacier/waterton/banff

planning a 7-10 day trip for end of summer...plan to rent a car in kalispell,spend several days in glacier, maybe one in waterton, then going on to spend 2 days in banff, 2 days at lake louise, then one night in calgary before returning home...plan to hike, take in the scenery, maybe raft and bike as well...would love to hear if anyone thinks this itinerary is doable...should we spend more or less time in any of those spots...spend the whole time in glacier and forget about banff...or vice versa???

any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

looking for help planning trip glacier/waterton/banff

It sounds entirely doable with 10 to 14 days. The only kink I can see is that you will not be able to rent a car in Montana and drop it off in Calgary. You%26#39;ll have to plan on driving back to Montana, leaving your rental car and flying home from there.

looking for help planning trip glacier/waterton/banff

As Camping Girl stated, you should have at least ten days to do all the activities you have listed. I would stay at least five days in Glacier. If you like to hike, there are numerous hikes in the Many Glacier area that are worth doing. What type of hiking are you interested in? Many hikes in Glacier have a lot of elevation change. I also think all rafting is on the west side, so you should plan two to three nights on each side of the park.

You will ahve a fair amount of windshield time, but a great trip. Note, end of summer the river is way down and the rafting very tame.

thanks very much for your reply; boy, did you possibly save me a very large hassle!!

wasnt%26#39; sure we could do both glacier, waterton, and banff during the same trip, so glad to hear you think that is doeable...of course if we fly into and out of calgary there will be some more driving involved.

one more question if you%26#39;d be so kind: there are several b%26amp;b%26#39;s in banff that have gotten rave reviews...but we also were planning on spending a few nights at lake louise...and i know they are only about 40 miles or so apart...would it make sense to spend a few nights at both banff and the lake louise area?

thanks much again.

joe

Whether its worthwhile to spend part of your Banff NP time in LL is entirely up to you. I personally wouldn%26#39;t want the hassle of packing up and moving 40 miles down the road when you can easily see it all from one base, but that%26#39;s my personal preference. Also, things in LL are *very* quiet - there is absolutely no nightlife, and very few restaurants.

I guess it depends on what you%26#39;re looking for.

really appreciate your reply!

we aren%26#39;t hard core hikers by any stretch, but we are in shape and love to do moderate hikes outdoors...we%26#39;d also love to raft and realize the time of year we%26#39;d be going might not be optimal...

anyways, thanks again very much for your response.

joe

thanks very much for your input-really appreciate it!

joe

camping girl,

you%26#39;re a wealth of information; thanks again.

so if i hear you right you%26#39;re suggesting we base our stay in banff and make a day trip to lake louise, etc...yes?? i%26#39;m not interested in changing our lodging frequently, just thought there%26#39;d be alot to see in banff and again in lake louise.

thanks much again.

joe

Oh, you%26#39;re most welcome!

Yes, in the Banff area I wouldn%26#39;t bother moving from Banff to LL (or vice versa) as a lot of what you want to see is so close. Even if you want to drive to Field (Yoho NP, west of LL) it is only about a 20 minute drive further than LL. Now, if you wanted to go to Jasper, that would be a different story as it is too far away to make a decent day trip of it. But do make a point while you are in the LL area to spend the better part of a day driving up the Icefields Parkway at least as far as the Athabasca Glacier, which is about halfway from LL to Jasper. This piece of road has some incredible views and in all honesty, that glacier is not going to be around for very many more years so see it while you can. The glacier tour is very interesting and well worth the money, IMO. Plus, you will want to check out Peyto Lake, which is accessible from the Icefields Parkway.

Let me know if you need suggestions for Banff and LL. Have you checked out my travel pages on that area? It might give you some ideas. (and the pictures will really whet your appetite for your impending vacation, lol) Here%26#39;s the link:

members.virtualtourist.com/m/adecc/de819/

Also, my Waterton page:

members.virtualtourist.com/m/adecc/dc729/

If you could find a full day for Calgary, I would urge you to visit Drumheller, about an hour east of the city. It is home to the Royal Tyrrell Museum, which houses what is probably the best collection of dinosaur skeletons in the world. It is really, really interesting, but you would need at least 5 hours to make that trip from Calgary, IMO.

I hope that helps. Happy planning.

- CG

thanks once again for your recommendations...it is people like you that make trip advisor such a great site.

by the way found out that you can rent a car in the US (kalispell) and return it in Canada (Calgary)...thats the good news...the bad news is that there is a $500 drop charge...think we%26#39;ll fly into and out of calgary and just suck up the extra driving down to glacier and back.

again, my thanks.

joe

red lipstick

Drop Your Jaw Gorgeous Sites

My husband and I love drop your jaw gorgeous sites. I realize there will be many on the Going to the Sun Road, and I am afraid that I am just getting educated. May I have suggestions of what vistas or sites we should expect along with easy hikes we might want to consider. My husband had knee surgery a few years ago so they can%26#39;t be to strenuous?

Drop Your Jaw Gorgeous Sites

Here%26#39;s a link to a report from our visit to Glacier and pictures of gorgeous sites.

http://www.alandsuejohnson.com/glacier_np.htm

I think all the pictures tell you where they are.

If you look at the menu on the left, we have seveal pictures from WV too. Cass, Dolly Sods, here and there in southern WV and Morgantown.

Drop Your Jaw Gorgeous Sites

Definitely, the GTTS Road will drop your jaw! It is breathtaking.

In addition to the pictures posted by akj, here is a link to my photos and info about GNP.

members.virtualtourist.com/m/adecc/c8d78/

I hope that helps whet your appetite for your upcoming vacation, lol!

Regards,

- CG

The four mile ';Loop Trail'; hike from GTTS (trailhead 8 miles west of Logan pass) up to Granite Park Chalet affords some really nice views. Might make a nice day hike with a picnic lunch stop at GPC. http://graniteparkchalet.com/ Downside is it has a pretty good elevation gain. Another option to GPC might be the Highline Trail but, while level, it is also longer (7.6) miles. From GPC there is a side trail to the Swiftcurrent Lookout.

bigskyfishing.com/National_parks/glacier/hig鈥?/a>

The view of the Swiftcurrent valley from there IS jaw dropping but the hike up to the lookout too strenuous.

outdoors.webshots.com/album/560438327ziecKF鈥?/a> (note...not my pics, just some I found online).

Perhaps just do part of the Highline trail as the knee allows.

I%26#39;m afraid a person with knee problems would find the Loop trail very difficult, especially on the descent. (And we thought it scenic only at the very top; the rest was drudgery).

The Highline Trail, on the other hand, offers great views from the outset. It is nearly level, and the views just keep opening up as you traverse along above the GTTS road. You could head out for a mile or so and then turn around and return.

Glacier National Park is the king of ';jaw dropping gorgeous'; IMHO along with Grand Teton National Park. Every view is pretty darn amazing. You will see so many of these amazing spots you won%26#39;t know what to do :)

Knee surgery can be tricky, but I recommend:

1. Two Medicine area and day hikes

2. Many Glacier area and day hikes

3. Avalanche area and day hikes

4. Logan Pass and Going to the Sun Road area and day hikes

5. North Fork of the Flathead NW of Apgar

6. Inside North Fork Road

7. Bowman Lake

8. Flathead National Forest just west of the park (lots of burn area but still beautiful)

Any advice for a poor travelor?

I am from the States and live in Malaysia. I am traveling to N. Idaho this August for a meeting and considering going to the Glacier National Park for a few days. I have never been to that part of the world (I am sure it is quite different than my native Louisiana and Borneo), and would love to visit.

Does anyone have any advice on where I could stay (cheaply), how much it costs to rent a car, and what I should do if I have about 5 days. I love hiking and fishing and just being outside. My budget is limited but I want to really experience the park. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Any advice for a poor travelor?

I%26#39;ve been checking prices for all the surronding ares and if you don%26#39;t want to camp, it%26#39;s pretty expensive. The best deals inside the park were cabins at Swiftcurrent at $80. Visit Glacier Park Inc. for lodging inside the park.

Outside the park, most places are arond $150 or more. I found some places in East Glacier Park that rented out rooms for around $50.

I looked at Kalispell to find cheaper options and the are some places there for less than $100. I%26#39;ve read that this is about 45 min. from the W. entrance.

I%26#39;m in the process of planning my first trip to Glacier as well and have probably looked at every place to stay in the area that%26#39;s on the net. There are lots of options you just have to find them. Good luck!

Any advice for a poor travelor?

There is a hostel in East Glacier, but I don%26#39;t remember the name of it. I can see it in my mind....

I found this link with a google search:

hihostels.com/dba/hostels-HI---East-Glacier-鈥?/a>

And this one, which is the place I was thinking of:

hostelbookers.com/hostels/鈥?/a>

This one lists its rate for a private room at $28.30 per night.

I have not stayed at either of these places so I can%26#39;t comment on their quality.

- CG

Rock-bottom budget way would be to camp. There are several campgrounds in the park; you could do 3 nights at one and 2 at another to see the whole park.

You can rent camping gear (tent and sleeping bag with pad) at REI in Spokane:

http://www.rei.com/stores/24

Add a campstove and buy a cooking pot (maybe at a second-hand store) and you can save money on meals too.

Two of the campgrounds are on the reservations system, and the rest are first-come, first served. The camping fee is $20 per night ($23 for the reserved ones)

I checked one company for car rental rates. Enterprise has an office in Coeur d%26#39;Alene; you can rent an economy car there for 5 days in August for $232.

Rock-bottom budget way would be to camp. There are several campgrounds in the park; you could do 3 nights at one and 2 at another to see the whole park.

You can rent camping gear (tent and sleeping bag with pad) at REI in Spokane:

http://www.rei.com/stores/24

Add a campstove and buy a cooking pot (maybe at a second-hand store) and you can save money on meals too.

Two of the campgrounds are on the reservations system, and the rest are first-come, first served. The camping fee is $20 per night ($23 for the reserved ones)

I checked one company for car rental rates. Enterprise has an office in Coeur d%26#39;Alene; you can rent an economy car there for 5 days in August for $232.

Sorry about the double post. . .

A clean, quiet, reasonably priced motel in East Glacier that I highly recommend is the Motel Pine motel (it was around $60/night when I was there in early September). The owners were extremely nice and vety helpful as well. It is near the Two Medicine section of the park where there is a beautiful lake and good hiking/fishing.

Thanks for all of your suggestions and advice. I am really looking forward to this trip and I am saving my money now. This forum has really helped me prepare for a great vacation.

Brownies Hostel in East Glacier is a wonderful,inexpensive place to stay--I know --I stayed there last summer for 3 weeks and loved it so much will be back there this summer for 2 weeks. You can chose a bunk room which I think is about $14 per night or a private room which is approx. $21 per night. If you come by train they will pick you up at the station. Brownies is a member of Hostel International. I did write a review and you might want to check it out.

You won%26#39;t be sorry you stayed here and it is very close to Two Medicine. There is a car rental place across the street.

Some really good advice here! Brownies is really nice for what you pay and they have great food. The ambience in East Glacier is fantastic. The Two Medicine area and East Glacier relaly have an outstanding transport system. There are shuttles from Brownies to the trailehads at Two Medicine that are very cheap, and it%26#39;s very inexpensive to stay there. Also, as someone suggested you can rent some camping gear from REI. However, make sure your sleeping bag is warm enough and you get a pad that is not self inflating. Glacier can get COLD in August. I recommend a bag rated for at least 20 degrees, and preferrably down.

Apgar is anice campground for the west side, although quite busy in August. There are not as many trails from the campgorund there, so Avalanche might bea better option for you. You can check out the campgrounds here:

parkcamper.com/Glacier-National-Park/Glacier鈥?/a>

As for fishing, the best spots are the lakes in the park and the North Fork of the Flathead on the west side of the park. Two Medicine has very good shorefishing at dawn and dusk with flies. Most of the backcountry lakes have good fishing. Apgar campground is close to the Northfork of the Flathead.

Nearest Showers to Two Medicine Campground

We plan on camping at Two Medicine Campground at least a couple nights. Anyone aware of any shower facilities near-by? Possibly in East Glacier? Worst comes to worst...any lakes streams that won%26#39;t freeze us to wash up in?

Nearest Showers to Two Medicine Campground

The KOA in St. Mary may be a possibility and there are showers at Swiftcurrent Lodge / Store that are available to the public with the purchase of a token from the store, bring a towel.

Nearest Showers to Two Medicine Campground

The KOA and Swiftcurrent are quite a distance away from East Glacier. here is the visitors info phone number, maybe they can help. Post here if you find one as I am not aware of any and often just ';jump in the lake';.

(406) 226-4403

And consider eating at Serranos (mexican), best food I have found in town.

Yes, Brownies in East Glacier offers showers. It also serves as a bakery/deli and backpacking hostel. Just go under the bridge towards Glacier, and it%26#39;s on the right side of the road just past the golf course and East Glacier Lodge.

AS for washing up, I don%26#39;t think Glacier is keen on using soap in streams and lakes. However, Two Medicine campground (Seen here):

parkcamper.com/Glacier-National-Park/Glacier鈥?/a>

Has really nice bathrooms and you could get away with using baby wipes or something in the stalls for a semi-clean up. Just be sure to clean up any excess water.

Wolverine99, yes. Correct, no soaps in the lakes or streams. I rinse off, use biodegradable soap (which they still don%26#39;t like) but have a water container and towel and do this on the rocks away from the lake and rinse off there.

I%26#39;m good with the lake/stream non-soap bath. Done my share of them. Just need to find a way to convince my wife that a quick frigid dip is better than a warm shower.

Denny Creek Cabin

Hi all.

I%26#39;m new to you alls board.

We have reservations to Denny Creek Cabin. Has anyone ever stayed there before?

We won%26#39;t be arriving until the first of September, so we%26#39;re just ancious for any details. The pictures of the cabin are beutiful and look very comfortable. I%26#39;ve spoken to the owners a couple times and they are very polite and friendly. We can%26#39;t wait to meet them.

I did a search on this board for the cabin, but didn%26#39;t turn up anything. Surely, someone has something to say about it.

These forums are great! When we took our Alaska vacation, we gathered as much information we could and met new forum friends. I can honestly say, we got the biggest bang for the buck when we visited Alaska. It was Fantastic. We are equally excited to visit Yellowstone National Park.

Thanks.

Chas.

Denny Creek Cabin

You may get a better response posting on the Yellowstone forum in Wyoming! There are many people that post there that live in West Yellowstone!

Denny Creek Cabin

Are you referring to the Denny Creek cabin at the Bar N Ranch in West Yellowstone? If you are, then we stayed there this past Sept. Confirm that this is what you are referring to and I%26#39;ll give you my thoughts.

Tarheel,

I believe you stayed up the road a little ways from where we%26#39;ve rented.

This is the cabin I refer too.

www.vrbo.com/global/siteFrame.asp鈥?/a>

Have you done a trip report yet? I%26#39;d love to read another Tarheel traveler%26#39;s adventure to Yellowstone.

Ain%26#39;t Vacations neat!

If you visit Alaska, I really tried to hit the bases on our adventure. We had a blast, and can%26#39;t wait to go back. Check out my trip report.

Thanks

Chas.

red lipstick

camp--tent,motorhome cabin-need advice

in aug 2009 we plan to meet grandchildren and children in glacier np---we plan to stay on the west side and need room for a small motorhome--2 tents and a cabin--- anyone with experience a nd knowledge of this area would be of great help and much appreciated--cheers bill in co springs colorado

camp--tent,motorhome cabin-need advice

Here%26#39;s some I had on my list to check on for our own Glacier trip.

www.lakefiveresort.com

www.westglacierkoa.com

www.northamericanrvpark.com

www.glacierparkmotelandcampground.com

www.westglacier.com

camp--tent,motorhome cabin-need advice

Suggestions above are a good start, pretty much outside the park but based on what you need more likely to work. Short drive to the park (minutes) for most of these sites. Apgar village has these accomodations, but you you be spread out as not all of these sevices in the same site.

Feb. 09 snowmobiling

I would like to know the best place to go snowmobling in Montana. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Feb. 09 snowmobiling

vanmern-

We%26#39;re headed for West Yellowstone to snowmobile in Yellowstone 2 days %26amp; then 1 day in the national forest. Since I%26#39;ve not used the outfitter that I%26#39;ve reserved with, I don%26#39;t want to post their name.

If anyone has recommendations for me or vanmern, please post %26#39;em.

Thanks.

Feb. 09 snowmobiling

What fun! If I read your message correctly you have been to Montana to snowbile previously. Have to taveled to other areas in the state? We are undecided on the best location for new riders who love adventure. We are feeling pretty good about the Whitefish area, but also have interest in Yellowstone and Seely lake. So hard to make a choice when you have not visited before.

We have no desire to ski, only snowmobile. We want a beautiful route to take.

Yes, I%26#39;ve snowmobiled out of the Togowotee Pass area.

In February we%26#39;re taking 2 day trips into Yellowstone - 1 to Old Faithful %26amp; 1 to the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone. The 3rd day we%26#39;re riding the trails around West Yellowstone.

I%26#39;d highly recommend a ride into Yellowstone.

It would be great if someone who%26#39;s used an outfitter in West Yellowstone would post some info about them.

I was lucky. Been going down to West since 1983 %26amp; made a few friends over the years. Try to get out with a local or the rental shops have guides. Just be carefull in the Back Country. West Yellowstone is a great place to ride. Cook City is good as well, great back country riding trail system is so so.

Can you recommend a snowmobile rental company, one with tours tour Yellowstone from West Yellowstone? Thank you.

Most of the hotels %26amp; motels have rentals %26amp; guides. Shop around for the best deals.

Thanks for all the info. We are getting a family trip together to go out in December. Vanmern hope you have fun and make sure you let us know how it was.

Angela

A friend of mine said to try nps.gov

I highly recomend too top rental. Great tour of the park. Reasonable rates. Best vacation ever. Try to go early March as the weather is much nicer.

I did go with Two Top, they were great.

Lake McDonald Lodge - Motor Inn

Has anyone stayed in the Motor Inn part? Those are the only rooms they have open for the date I want.

Thanks for any input!

red lipstick

Day trip to Waterton Lakes NP from Columbia Falls?

Hi. Planning a trip from Scotland to Montana. At the moment, we plan to spend 3 nights in Columbia Falls around May 13th. We would love to make it up to Waterton Lakes NP as a day trip. Is this possible, given that the Going to the Sun road will still be closed? If it%26#39;s doable at that time of year, which route would you suggest as a good day trip taking in the best of the scenery. We%26#39;re travelling with a wheelchair-user so we%26#39;ll really just be in the car most of the time, with stops for photos and snacks. We have a couple of extra nights on our trip that we could use either before or after our stay at Columbia Falls (nothing firmly booked yet). At the moment our planned stopover before Columbia Falls is Great Falls and then on our way south we plan to stopover at Missoula. Having made it as far as Glacier (from Salt Lake City) we want to be sure we see as much as possible of Northern Montana. Our trip is a little different from most folks visiting this area in that we don%26#39;t need time for hikes etc. Posting this on Waterton Lakes forum and Glacier park - sorry for repetition to anyone who looks at both forums. Thanks for any help/advice!

Day trip to Waterton Lakes NP from Columbia Falls?

If you will be headed to Great Falls, than having a 2-day on the east side of the park would make this trip much easier. Camping Girl posts here often and is the Waterton expert so you can get details from her on the status of Cheif Mntn road and Waterton opening. You would be driving US 2 though east Glacier and into Browning, and then up toward St. Marys, where accomodations may be available. (you can google this for accomodation ideas and contacts) Heading south from Browning toward Choteau, before heading to Great Falls, is a very nice early morning drive along the rocky mntn front.

Day trip to Waterton Lakes NP from Columbia Falls?

Waterton is a great trip if you can squeak it in. It is so different than the US side, and a fun way to say you%26#39;ve been to Canada on this trip. I%26#39;d try to make it work.

If you can add those days before you go to Columbia Falls, I%26#39;d suggest you go north from Great Falls with the intent on staying a night or 2 in the St. Mary or Babb area to see the east side of Glacier and then on up to see Waterton. If you don%26#39;t mind a little out of the way, from Waterton continue north to Pincher Creek and catch highway 3 west over Crowsnest Pass, stopping to examine the Frank Slide visitor%26#39;s center. Continue west on 3 to highway 93 south which will join highway 2 just a few miles west of Columbia Falls.

I believe the planned opening dates for the Chief Mt. Road to Waterton and the road into Many Glacier is May 15. Some years it is a little earlier if weather isn%26#39;t too bad, but mid May is the norm.

Hi,

I have left a reply to your question on the Alberta forum regarding this same query. And, yes, Chief Mountain doesn%26#39;t open until May 15th.

(I%26#39;m not around here much these days folks - I%26#39;m smack in the middle of tax season, with no forecasted light at the end of the tunnel until May 1st! 70 hour weeks are *not* conducive to surfing the internet...!)

Hi. Many thanks to you all for your great help. We%26#39;re just trying to put everything together (it%26#39;s a 19 day trip) and investigate good lodging options. If I have any more questions, I%26#39;ll get back to you all - you%26#39;re obviously really knowledgeable!

Where to stay/cross the border

We will be going to Grasslands National Park in Saskatchewan for a very brief trip, then starting home to Arizona. Any suggestions for a place to stay for two nightsin northern Montana on the way to Grasslands ?

Where to stay/cross the border

Malta would be a natural. On the way there, Lewistown is nice. There are several nice hotels there (one recently renovated).

The towns of Zortman and Sandusky are historical and interesting in small-town-in-Montana kind of way.

Note all the towns in Montana named after European cities or states: Malta, Havre, Belgrade... They were named this way by the train companies to sound like big up and coming cities that you%26#39;d really want to relocate to during the opening of the West.

http://www.maltachamber.com/sleep_%26amp;_eat.htm

horse pack trip

I am looking for a good outfitter to have a horse pack trip into the wilderness for 7 days with good fly fishing in montana....does anyone have any suggestions?

horse pack trip

Where in Montana do you wish to go? The Bob Marshall? Down by Livingston into the Paradise Valley? Lots of good fishing all over the state, and lots of horse packers.

horse pack trip

Follow this link, then click on Visitor Services. There is a section called Outfitters and Guides. You can look them up by area/town/city.

I looked at these three, which are located in Augusta. We are going with Triple J the last week in June on one of their 4 day trips.

Triple J

Mills Wilderness Adventures

Ford Creek

There is also a well-regarded outfitter in Choate, but I can%26#39;t remember the name.

http://www.visitmt.com/index.htm

Thanks for you help/suggestions. I know one question asked previously is what area of Montana I wanted to go to and I am still researching that and do not have a favorite at this time so I am open to all suggestions.

Choteau is the name of the town near the Bob Marshall Wilderness where there are outfitters. Choteau is just north of Augusta. The Bob is the huge wilderness area south of Glacier National Park. Great Falls is the nearest ';big'; city and airport.

Last August I did a 7 day horsepacking trip with A Lazy H Outfitters, near Choteau. Had the trip of a lifetime, so many treasured memories. This family has been leading fishing, hunting, photography trips for a couple of generations. Send me a private message if you%26#39;d like details. Some parts of the trip were really excellent, other parts I%26#39;d want to do differently.

By all means, get out into the wilderness for an entirely different perspective on life.

Off season activities???

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what activities will be available in Whitefish at the end of 04/2009? (Appears my sister and I are visiting during the offseason-too late for winter activities and too early for summer.) We are 50+ age southern women and will probably spend most of our time shopping and just hanging out. I wonder if any ';tours'; will be operating 4/24-5/1/2009 where we can visit Glacier Park or if we have to do our own driving. Neither of us can ski but maybe can snowmobile??? Thanks for any suggestion!

Off season activities???

You are on the right track with shopping and just hanging out. Our local economy sure can use your dollars! :%26gt;)

You will not find any tours for Glacier Park, but do rent a car and do your own driving. It%26#39;s easy and enjoyable. GNP is about 30-40 minutes from Whitefish. You can drive alongside Lake McDonald and still see some spectacular scenery.

Be sure to head down to Bigfork for a day of more shopping, nice galleries and good restaurants. Also enjoy the scenic Flathead Lake. You could drive down the east shore of Flathead Lake and just take in the views. Also in Bigfork is the Swan River Nature Trail, a lovely walk high above the Swan River. Ask any of the locals how to find it. You walk as far as you like, then turn around and come back. Very safe, beautiful, easy trail. Enjoy Brookies Cookies on their deck overlooking the Swan River.

Kalispell has some lovely shops downtown. Capers is the best evening dining, on Main Street. Central School Museum, if history is your thing (also a sweet cafe in the museum). Hockaday Art Center has some great exhibits of Montana artists.

Check the local newspapers for music, theatre, and other entertainment. There%26#39;s always something going on, every weekend. You%26#39;ll find plenty to do.

Have a great time! Plus, you will be here for the daffodils and tulips! By the time we are done with six months of winter, we are so ready for these sweet flowers to show their faces.

red lipstick

Scotia Bank branch/atm Waterton

Will be visiting Waterton, Banff, Jasper after a stay in Glacier. After much reading about currency exchange, would like to locate a Scotia Bank atm (global partner with Bank of America so international fees are waived) soon after crossing into Waterton. Come up with nothing when I search the Scotia Bank website and enter ';Waterton, Alberta';.

Camping Girl, anyone, know of an Scotia Bank ATM in the area?

Thanks.

Del Norte

Scotia Bank branch/atm Waterton

There are no banks in Waterton, just a cash machine in the Tamarack Mall.

There is a Scotiabank in Blairmore, AB (in the Crowsnest Pass), in Canmore (which is just outside Banff Park), I%26#39;m not sure about Pincher Creek, but that is the closest large centre to Waterton, and there might be one there.

Scotia Bank branch/atm Waterton

Thank you for that confirmation. We will stop in Cranmore.

Really do appreciate all you offer on these boards, Camping Girl and other experts.

Del Norte

best weather in the fall?

I%26#39;m thinking about some hiking in Big Sky. What is the weather like in late September through October?

best weather in the fall?

Fall colors should be stunning, thanks to cool and cold nights. There will likely still be plenty of sunshine, but you know, these weather questions are pretty impossible to answer. Here in Montana, anything could be happening, from 70 degrees to snowing. It%26#39;s also hunting season, so stay within National or State Parks, or wear flourescent orange.

Enjoy!

best weather in the fall?

As stated Montana weather can change quickly and be unpredictable. I would say late Sept will usually be nice, October can be beautiful or cold, especially toward evenings. The temps will drop quickly late afternoon and the evening and nights will definitely be chilly. Are you talking day hikes, or overnight camping type of hiking? That would make a huge difference as well.

Road Trip Help

I%26#39;m planning a GNP trip this Aug with the family (wife %26amp; kids 9,7,5) and will be travling from Minnesota. As far as getting there goes, should I drive it straight through (some friends have done it overnight as the kids slept) or do it during normal hours with stops along the way? Any suggestions for spots in between would be great.

Road Trip Help

It depends on whether you want to just get there and back or if you want to educate your kids on what is in between. I prefer to educate. It%26#39;s about 1200 miles from St. Paul to St. Mary at the east end of the Going to the Sun highway. That seems too far without stops, even with 2 drivers. Why not look at what is along the route and make a game for the kids, like what can you see. Your youngest may get bored, but it may surprise you what the little ones remember years later.

Assuming that you have taken them places near home before, make the first part of the trip pretty quick, but as you get to less familiar territory, find things of interest for them. A (short) tour of the capital of North Dakota, a stop at the rest area just east of Medora to see the badlands and look for bison. A little longer stop at the dinosaur museum in Dickinson, ND might be worthwhile. Even little things like the metal sculpture on I-94 between Bismarck and Dickinson may pique their interest.

We also let the kids take books along to read. You may want to guide their choices to let them feel part of the planners and choose books about Glacier National Park or the wild west. Cowboy stories could be another good choice.

Road Trip Help

I agree with RM-MN. When I was a kid, my brother %26amp; I had lots of fun on the family trips to Montana. Great suggestion to include the kids in the planning. You%26#39;ll be going thru some really scenic areas, so daylight hours for traveling would be best. Also at night, the chance of having a deer run out in front of you is greater. There is a lot of flat or rolling grassland between western MN %26amp; Dickinson, and my husband would just as soon drive that part at night, but I have some favorite stops along the way, plus I actually like that part (esp. the old homesteads).

Jamestown: I think it is the second exit - there is a pioneer town, visitor center %26amp; they have a buffalo herd there, including a white buffalo cow (White Cloud). I had heard that she had a white calf last summer. There is a giant sculpture of a buffalo you can see from the Interstate (it%26#39;ll be on the north - right side). Take the very next exit %26amp; go right, then I think it%26#39;s right at the next stoplights, there should be signs.

Lots of things to see around Bismarck, but don%26#39;t know that you%26#39;ll have a whole lot of time. Besides the Capitol %26amp; Heritage Center, their are old Indian villages %26amp; Fort Abraham Lincoln (this is where Custer %26amp; the 7th Cavalry started their fateful trip to the Little Bighorn).

The giant metal sculpture that RM-MN mentioned is the north end of what%26#39;s called the Enchanted Highway which runs from the I-94 exit at Gladstone, ND, down to Regent, ND. A farmer from down by Regent started making these giant metal sculptures several years ago %26amp; they are placed along the road, I think about 9 or 10 total scenes. The one by I-90 is Geese In Flight, and then the next one is either Buck or Deer Crossing. Some of the others are Giant Grasshoppers; a Pheasant family; Teddy Roosevelt on a horse; a Farmer, his wife %26amp; son. These are all made from scrap metal, oil drums, barbwire %26amp; they are HUGE. You can Google ';Enchanted Highway, North Dakota'; for more info. I think the kids would really like these.

Just west of Dickinson %26amp; Belfield, you%26#39;ll start coming into the badlands, and a stop at Painted Canyon Overlook is a must-see. That is the rest area RM-MN was talking about. Then the town of Medora would be next, and you%26#39;ll want to keep your eyes peeled for wild mustangs, buffalo, elk %26amp; deer on the north side of the road where the really high fence is thru this stretch. Hopefully you will have time to drive up into the South Unit of Theodore Roosevelt Nat%26#39;l Park. You probably want to allow at least an hour for this, tho, if not longer.

The North Unit of the Park is very scenic as well, but you need to exit at Belfield (or before) to get there, and it%26#39;s about 50 miles or so north on US Hwy 85. If you had time to visit the north unit, I%26#39;d actually recommend going north from Dickinson on Hwy 22 to Killdeer, then over to US 85 on Hwy 200. This will give you a good view of the Killdeer Mountains (not really mountains, but big hills) where a battle was fought back around 1866 between the US Army %26amp; the Sioux (or Lakota %26amp; Dakota Indians). I believe Sitting Bull might have been at this camp, as well as Inkpaduta - both chiefs were at the Little Bighorn fight in 1876. This was a peaceful village, and they were attacked pretty much without warning. The army opened up on them with cannon, and attacked pretty much unmercifully. Several of the soldiers were ';galvanized yankees'; - Confederate prisoners of war that were given the choice of prison or enlistment in the Union Army to fight Indians in the west. The warriors %26amp; older boys ran for their horses %26amp; tried to hold the soldiers off until the women, children %26amp; elderly could escape, but there was nowhere to go except up the Killdeer Mtn - very steep %26amp; dangerous climb. The Indians who were able to escape ran along the top of Killdeer mtn to the east end where legend says there is a cave called the Medicine Hole which is like a place where an underground river once ran. Supposedly, the Indians escaped thru the mountain, coming out on the back or north side, then up toward Canada. My mom%26#39;s brothers checked this out back in the 1950%26#39;s, and they said it%26#39;s there all right - a big hole in the ground. One of them lowered the other one down on a rope, but it was really dark %26amp; he coudn%26#39;t touch the bottom, %26amp; I think they got creeped-out %26amp; left. My mom%26#39;s cousins own the ranch that surrounds the part of the battlefield where the monument is %26amp; the two soldiers are buried (The Diamond C Ranch), and they have found many artifacts (around 5000) which have been put into a display at the ND Heritage Center in Bismarck.

Anywho, there are a bunch of shops in Medora, also the ND Cowboy Hall of Fame Museum which also has some Native American displays. One of Teddy Roosevelt%26#39;s cabins (I think it%26#39;s from his Maltese Cross ranch) is located near the entrance to the South Unit. I don%26#39;t know what is left for buildings on his Elkhorn ranch site, and I don%26#39;t think it%26#39;s easy to get to, either. There%26#39;s also the Chateau de Mores, home of Teddy Roosevelt%26#39;s friend the Marquis de Mores %26amp; his beautiful wife Medora (after whom the town was named). It%26#39;s a big ol%26#39; house. Can%26#39;t remember how much the tour cost, but it was neat seeing all those antiques. There is a place on the east side of town near where you come in from I-94 that offers trail rides. If you%26#39;re at Medora in the evening, they have a musical that is put on by mostly college kids that is really good (The Medora Musical). Great family show. Might want to bring jackets as it can get cold in the evening - the show is put on in a natural outdoor amphitheater.

Somewhere here you%26#39;re probably going to want to look for a motel. I don%26#39;t know how many days you have for your trip, but if you can take two days to get to Glacier, then Medora or Glendive or Miles City might be good stopping places. I%26#39;ve heard it can be noisy in Medora (train whistle blows during the night???), and probably pretty pricey. We%26#39;ve stayed at the Motel 6 in Miles City several times over the years, %26amp; it%26#39;s always been adequate (%26amp; within walking distance of 4-B%26#39;s %26amp; Gallagher%26#39;s Restaurants). Miles City is home to the Range Riders%26#39; Museum located on the west side of town near old Fort Keogh. Lots of info about the Indian wars, cowboys %26amp; cattle trails, railroad, etc.

I should mention that if you wanted to leave home really early in the AM, or even midnight, with 2 drivers you would get a lot farther than Miles City the first day, unless you go up to the North Unit of TR Park. But keep in mind that some of these places may close by 5 or 6pm.

If your kids are into dinosaurs, they may enjoy a stop at Makoshika State Park south of Glendive. Ma-KO-shi-ka means bad land or bad spirits live here in Lakota (I think they mostly stayed away from this place). Last summer we drove thru Glendive to the entrance gate, but were pinched for time, so didn%26#39;t actually drive in. They are supposed to have dinosaur bones/skeletons on display at the visitor%26#39;s center, plus I think they have actual dinosaur digs where your kids could excavate some old bones (don%26#39;t know if they get to keep anything they find). Probably have to allow at least two hours here, tho. I%26#39;m sure there is a website you can check out (google Makoshika State Park, Montana).

If you have time to go down to the Little Bighorn Battlefield, that is an amazing place. I%26#39;d recommend heading south off I-94 at the Colstrip exit which will take you past their big coal mine. I%26#39;m not sure how much you can see from the road these days, but there are slides %26amp; shutes %26amp; cool-looking things to see as you drive thru that go under or over the highway. This route will take you thru the Northern Cheyenne Indian Reservation, and it%26#39;s easy to imagine back into the 1860%26#39;s %26amp; see the warriors on their ponies looking down on you from the rocky pine-covered hills. As you go thru Busby, that%26#39;s where Custer%26#39;s men camped before going thru the little pass to the Little Bighorn River. This reservation joins the Crow Indian Reservation just west of Busby, and if you look to the southwest you should be able to see the Bighorn Mountains (that%26#39;s looking into Wyoming). Plan on at least an hour at the Battlefield, if not more. There is a visitor center/museum, interpretive talks by Native Americans, and you can walk around the battleground. There is also the National Cemetery where several of the survivors were buried when they died. I believe Custer%26#39;s 4 Crow Scouts (Goes Ahead, White Man Runs Him, Hairy Moccasin %26amp; Curly) are all buried there.

If you don%26#39;t go down to the Little Bighorn, you may want to stop at Pompey%26#39;s Pillar, located between the town of Custer on I-94 %26amp; Billings. This is a huge rock beside the Yellowstone River where the Corp of Discovery stopped on their way home in 1806, and Capt William Clark wrote his name in the rock. Clark named the place for Sacajawea%26#39;s baby boy whom he had nicknamed Pompey.

There are pictograph caves south of Billings. I%26#39;ve not been there yet, but heard they were interesting.

I%26#39;m not sure which route you would want to take to Glacier, but since this post is getting pretty long, I%26#39;m going to direct you to my past post replies where I have several different routes listed, as well as some things to see %26amp; do along the way. I did want to mention that if you wanted to take a more northern route to get to Glacier (maybe Hwy 2?), you could always come home on I-94 to see some of these places. You could also go out %26amp; back to Billings on the interstate, then take I-90 home thru South Dakota (seeing Little Bighorn Battlefield at this time instead of on the way out). One time we went home by turning south off I-94 at the Enchanted Hwy in North Dakota, then into South Dakota, thru the Standing Rock Indian Reservation to Mobridge, then followed the Missouri River down to US Hwy 14. We took that to Rochester, then home thru LaCrosse. We were able to stop at DeSmet, SD, and Walnut Grove, MN, to visit the homes of Laura Ingalls Wilder. That was really nice, and your kids might really enjoy that if you haven%26#39;t already been there. Be sure to bring binoculars and cameras (the bigger the zoom the better). I sure hope you guys have a great trip - Glacier is so beautifully breathtaking, you%26#39;re going to love it! Look for the mountain goats on Logan Pass - we almost always see them there, and there is usually one little one in the bunch.

Crow Agency, Montana Hostels/Budget Motel

Does anyone know if there are any hostels in Crow Agency, Montanaa? My husband and I (50+) only need a place to sleep and shower.

Crow Agency, Montana Hostels/Budget Motel

Hi~ I checked my 2008 Montana Vacation Planning Book %26amp; the only place they list for Crow Agency is the Little Bighorn Camp, which is listed as a private campground. They%26#39;re located one mile from the battlefield, junction of I-90 %26amp; US 212, open April 1st - Oct 1st. It shows that they have all the services including showers, then it says, ';motel available.'; Phone is 406-638-2232. I have no idea wheather this is a good place to stay or not.

There are 5 motels listed for Hardin, about 12 miles up the road. Looks like they range in price from ';el cheapo'; to ';whoa Nelly!'; (symbols actually used: $, $$, %26amp; $$$)

Let me know if you%26#39;d like the contact info for Hardin motels. BTW, if you have a few weeks before you leave on your trip, you may want to get a free Montana Vacation Planning packet for 2009. You can order online at www.visitmt.com or call 1-800-847-4868. The website will also have listings for accommodations in certain Montana towns, so you could also check there for Crow Agency %26amp; surrounding area. Good luck!

Crow Agency, Montana Hostels/Budget Motel

Are you spending multiple days at the Battlefield? If so, Hardin is your best choice. There are not many hostels in MT, as there are not many people. The hotels in Hardin will not be any kind of fancy. They charge what they have to in order to stay in business. If you%26#39;re staying only a single night, consider Billings. There are more options there both on the high and low ends.

You could check in to couch surfing - there are several couch surfers in Billings. (www.couchsurfing.com)

A friend of mine is using this service and having fun meeting people.

There is the Miracle - Little Big Horn Camp, which has RV and tent camping and a small motel.

PO Box 266 Crow Agency, MT 59022 406-638-2232

I don%26#39;t know when you are going. If it is in the summer you might try the Hardin KOA. We stayed 2 nights in a kabin. It was a simple room with a bunkbed and a double bed, very small table and good air-conditioning. You need to bring your own linens. It was inexpensive and a nice place to stay.

Would Glacier be a good destination if we are not hikers?

I have a knee issue, so I am limited to short hikes. Is Glacier worthwhile if we can%26#39;t really leave the road? what would there be to do that doesn%26#39;t require more than a mile or two hike? If so, where is a good place to center? East Glacier or west? The park lodges are kind of spendy. We would also like to go to Waterton lakes. Any itinerary suggestions will be welcomed. We plan to go the first week of September. Good time?

Would Glacier be a good destination if we are not hikers?

Hey there! First off, the first week of September will be a wonderful time to be in Glacier...I would love to visit that time of the year myself!

Glacier NP is definitely the most beautiful place I%26#39;ve visited in the U.S., and I%26#39;m sure I would have the same opinion even if I never was able to hike the trails. There is so much beauty just along the Going to the Sun Road that you can easily see why this park is referred to the Crown of the Continent.

There are plenty of very worthwhile short hikes as well as drives/activities that you could do having a knee issue. Here are just some options:

Hike Trail of the Cedars (0.9 miles on a boardwalk/paved path)

Take a boat cruise on Lake McDonald or St. Mary Lake

Hike to St. Mary Falls and back (1.5 miles)

Walk to Sunrift Gorge and Baring Falls (0.7 miles)

Walk to Sun Point (0.5 miles)

Walk to Running Eagle Falls (0.5 miles)

Take a boat shuttle on Two Medicine Lake and hike to Twin Falls and back (1.8 miles)

Take a boat shuttle on Swiftcurrent Lake and hike to Grinnell Lake and back (1.8 miles)

Canoe/kayak on one of the park%26#39;s lakes

Take a horseback ride to Cracker Flats

Take a historic, memorable Red Jammer tour on GTTS Road

Hike around Swiftcurrent Lake (2 miles)

Drive around Highway 2, stopping at the Walton Goat Lick Overlook

Take a day drive up Polebridge Road %26amp; spend hours along the shore of Bowman Lake

Spend a day or two in beautiful Waterton Lakes NP

Take a boat cruise on Waterton Lake

Drive Akamina Parkway and marvel at Cameron Lake

Drive Red Rock Parkway and hike to Blakiston Falls (~1.5 miles)

Enjoy the many park lodges in Glacier/Waterton

SOOOOOO....in short, there are a plethora of activities you can still do if you are limited to only short walks and driving. I%26#39;m not sure how long you will be in the park, so I cannot give you a possible itinerary. I also will not say yet whether basing on the East or West side of the park will be better for you, although I do think splitting between the two sides would be ideal if you%26#39;ll be in the park for more than a few days.

Sean

Would Glacier be a good destination if we are not hikers?

Sean...

Thank you!! We really do want to see the park. We can pretty much take as much time as we want (well, almost). we are going to drive from Minnesota and want to hold the trip to 10 days to 2 weeks. How long we spend at Glacier simply depends on what else we do. We just thought this up, so are flexible now. The idea of staying west and east is a good one. What is the best way to do Waterton? A day trip up from GTlacier, so spend a night?

What a help this forum is!!!

I%26#39;m glad you%26#39;re finding TA to be helpful in your trip planning. I would say the best way to do Waterton would be to spend a night up there...perhaps the beautiful Prince of Wales Hotel if you%26#39;re willing to pay for it. It is situated on a bluff high above Waterton Lake...a beautiful setting! If you spent the night there, then you could spend the first day driving the Akamina and Red Rock Parkways (and do the few short walks) and the second day you could take the International boat cruise the second day. You could even hop off the boat at Goat Haunt and walk around a bit. Goat Haunt offers you a few short hikes (Goat Haunt Overlook at about 2.2 miles %26amp; Kootenai Lakes at about 5 miles). I think Kootenai Lakes would be very worthwhile if you could do 5 miles...I understand it is not a difficult hike in terms of elevation change.

So do you know what other places you might visit on your 10 day-2 week trip? Yellowstone, Tetons, Beartooth Highway, Theodore Roosevelt NP? You could easily spend 5-10 days in Glacier soaking up the scenery, but there are many other beautiful places in that part of the country. I%26#39;d say 5-7 days in Glacier/Waterton would be appropriate for you to really enjoy the park if you are not on any real time constraints.

Great suggestions, Sean! :0)

We%26#39;ve been to Glacier a few times, and because of time constraints, mostly have to just drive thru on our way out or back. We seldom have time to hike, and yet I have enjoyed it every time. We%26#39;ve stayed at Hungry Horse and Whitefish on the west side.

If you have time, you might find Hungry Horse Dam interesting. When we were there, it was late afternoon/ early evening %26amp; it was very secluded - great spot to maybe see a bear.

We also really enjoyed the lift ride up Big Mountain on the north side of Whitefish. If you have a nice warm day to do this, I think you%26#39;d really enjoy it. You can see into Canada, Glacier Park, %26amp; south into the Flathead valley. I would think at that time of year the fall colors would be spectacular.

You may enjoy taking one day to drive down %26amp; around Flathead Lake, maybe visit the National Bison Range. There are several small towns along the way with cool little specialty shops and antiques for sale. You may want to visit www.visitmt.com to order a 2009 Montana Vacation Planning packet. This site also has info on accomodations in the towns around the park - probably could find something really nice that isn%26#39;t as expensive as park lodging.

You should have access to all the roads in Glacier National Park but be aware that there is reconstruction going on all summer and you may run into some delays. The Going to the Sun road is scheduled to close in mid-September so more work can be done. Make sure you know the date it closes and be there enough ahead of that so you can enjoy it. Check out all the info on the roads here:

www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/hours.htm

Absolutely!

In fact I would say Glacier is a perfect park for those who don%26#39;t hike. Why? Because Glacier%26#39;s scenery is all encompasing, and you are *in* the mountains almost all the time while on the road unlike most other parks. There are several examples of this:

1. Going to the Sun Road. Completely in the mountains but I don%26#39;t think it will be open all the way across in September of 2009. At least it wasn;t in 2008 and I think they are going that way again in 2009.

2. Inside North Fork Road: rough dirt road through a remote portion of the park.

3. Road to Bowman and Kintla Lakes: adventurous to say the least. Also Northfork Road and Flathead national forest drives.

4. U.S. 2 bordering the south of the park is gorgeous as well, with lots to see (middle fork Flathead, Goat Lick).

5. Many Glacier Road. Simplyhas to be seen to be believed.

6. Two Medicine area. Road access all through it and gorgeous.

You don%26#39;t even have to hike if you don%26#39;t want to see amazing scnenery - that%26#39;s the beauty of Glacier. It%26#39;s why Backpacker magazine readers rates it the best national park every time they hold a vote.

I like both the east and west sides. The east side is more rugged like the Tetons, but with more numerous lakes and IMHO easier to see wildlife. The west side is more green with more tree variety and also lots of lakes. For the most ';wow'; scenery without hiking, focus on Going to the Sun Road, Two Medicine(east) and Many Glacier(east). however, the west side should not be skipped. I spend 2 days on the west side and 5 days on the east side when I go there. You can see the various campgrounds here:

parkcamper.com/Glacier-National-Park/Glacier鈥?/a>

I find Two Medicine campground to be a great all around base, with a nice little store, great scenery, and a good fishing lake. For the west side, Apgar and Avalanche campgroudns make for excellent bases.

The road across the park should be open until Sept. 15. It will then be closed for ongoing repairs. You will be able to access Logan Pass from one side or the other till the end of Sept. Which side is open to Logan Pass will depend on the work schedule.

rafting suggestion for good scenery for seniors

My wife and I are ';young'; seniors and fit and active. We are driving %26#39;cross country in July and will cross Montana from West Yellowstone to Coeur D%26#39;Alene, ID. We would like to do a rafting trip the would have great scenery and yet not float really challenging white water. ';Entertaining'; white water would be fine. We welcome any suggestions from the forum. Thanks.

rafting suggestion for good scenery for seniors

My cousins from Three Forks like to float the Madison River, and I%26#39;ve wanted to float the Jefferson River for it%26#39;s scenic beauty, but haven%26#39;t had time to work that into a trip yet. I believe both are fairly tame. From within the Three Forks-Bozeman valley (floating the Jefferson, Madison or Gallatin Rivers), you%26#39;re able to view several mountain ranges (Tobacco Roots, Elkhorn Mtns, Bridger Range, Gallatin Range %26amp; northern end of the Madison Range). Plus this area has a big deer population - last July we saw Mulies %26amp; Whitetails, and several bucks had huge racks. You%26#39;re likely to see antelope plus smaller critters; also, songbirds as well as Osprey %26amp; other birds of prey.

Nearly every time we%26#39;ve come up the Gallatin Canyon road (US 191) we%26#39;ve seen rafts on the Gallatin River, but it looks pretty rough thru that stretch with huge boulders to manuever around %26amp; lots of whitewater. The Yellowstone River is very beautiful going thru the Paradise Valley, but that might put you too far east of your route to Idaho. I hope someone will post who has some experience floating these rivers.

rafting suggestion for good scenery for seniors

The Madison has some wild water south of Ennis in the Bear Trap Canyon... So stay out of there. It certainly isn%26#39;t what you describe. My floats on the rest of the Madison and Jefferson have been flat and boring, more about fishing in the sections between the Bear Trap and Three Forks. The Gallatin is the smallest of the three. I believe up by Big Sky there is some more active but not crazy rafting.

The Yellowstone in Paradise Valley north of Gardiner certainly qualifies as a float of that type. Look around in Livingston for an outfitter. Very pretty scenic valley with the Absaroka Beartooth Wilderness to the east.

The Yellowstone south of Livingston is not as small, hence it all flattens out. It is still fun, but flows the wrong direction for you (eastbound).

Good fishing on all these rivers, BTW. The Jefferson, Madison and Gallatin are destination trout fishing streams, as is the upper Yellowstone and smaller tributaries flowing into it.

The season of the year is important. You need to be the most careful early in summer during spring runoff. At Ennis there is a dam, so the water level is controlled from that point and downstream on the Madison. Late in August the water level can get low, but these are major rivers so they don%26#39;t dry up or anything!

West on I-90 there is the Clark%26#39;s Fork in Missoula but I don%26#39;t know much about that area.

I meant the Yellowstone past Livingston, which is east not south. It is the Yellowstone south of Livingston which might be a good choice.

I%26#39;m sorry if what I wrote was a bit confusing - I was trying to suggest floating portions of the Jefferson, Madison or Gallatin Rivers from inside the Three Forks-Bozeman valley to the headwaters of the Missouri River, not the areas where they are going thru the mountains/canyons. I agree those areas should be avoided unless you have the experience it takes, and I hope that the most dangerous parts have warnings/prohibitions posted.

I%26#39;ve fished from the bank at places along all three of these rivers plus Willow Creek (within the Three Forks-Bozeman valley), and I think the views are really scenic, and I%26#39;ve always seen wildlife. But as my husband says, ';To each his own.'; The Jefferson %26amp; Madison didn%26#39;t look boring to me, but then again I haven%26#39;t floated them yet, just walked %26amp; fished along the banks. My cousins seem to really enjoy floating the Madison, as they have several others from which to choose and pick this one most often.

If you weren%26#39;t planning on going thru the Three Forks area, the area around Missoula is very scenic as well, and portions of both the Clark Fork %26amp; Blackfoot Rivers may be good choices. If you%26#39;d like to check out www.visitmt.com, you can order a 2009 Montana vacation planning packet that should have info on float trips. Maybe something in one of the ads will catch your eye. There should also be some info on their website.

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